To think the UK is in terminal decline

I sort of see where you are coming from but also for years luxury has been considered the norm. We might be moving towards a time where we don’t holiday abroad, eat basic food, don’t eat out, mend clothes rather than buy new ones etc. but that’s what my parents did when I was growing up. We’ve gotten used to having what we want when we want and we are just going back to those things being a luxury.

@IncessantNameChanger
My adult son thinks we are headed into mass civil unrest as decline becomes very noticable in the next tens years.

What form does your son think the civil unrest will take? Large gangs raiding the houses of rich people? Rioting against the government? Total breakdown of law and order?

I hate the Labour Party but even I can see that as we are broke I’m not sure what they can do unless they lose their left wing ideals . Get to grips with welfare , get to grips with crime and antisocial behaviour. Every area of public service is not functioning, society has broken down . There is no hope . It’s all just so bloody depressing.

Actually global healthy life expectancy went up by nearly 10% between 2000-2021. It's not all about the UK.

Anyway I'm going out so won't be replying to anything else.

Viviennemary · Today 09:21
Until the exploding world population issue is tackled the whole world is in decline

I agree with this, but then there are lots of articles going on about the decline in birth rates in Korea, Japan and China being a disaster.

This decline is totally manufactured by those with vested interests. None of this was inevitable but here we are.

With the aging population staying healthier for longer, far more easily than in the past. We are so far away from having 'very few' young people even if population control measures were in place.

@Sourdoughandjam when do you say past when do you mean? healthy life expectancy hasn't increased in years?

We already have more over 65s than under 15s?

Yep, I agree with all that.

With the aging population staying healthier for longer, far more easily than in the past. We are so far away from having 'very few' young people even if population control measures were in place.

Neoliberalism has totally destroyed the west.

This isn't just about the UK though is it? It's about global population too.

I am 100% not a Brexit or Trump supporter so don't even go there. There are many, many ways that we can support an aging population and let's not forget that our aging population is an aging population because medical advances have meant we can keep going for longer. We can work longer, live independently longer so it isn't a like for like comparison to supporting previous generation of elderly people. We can disagree on this and I'm fine with that. There's no way we can continue with current birth rates - the planet can't sustain it. It really is that simple.

There really isn’t much for today’s youngsters to be positive about. The era of growth and prosperity is over. Whether intentional or not the older generations have benefitted from factors beyond their own making and pulled up the drawbridge behind them.

Bullshit. Your 'older generations' gained their prosperity through their own collective work, rebuilding from the rubble of two world wars. Your own generation will benefit by inheriting from them.

Gen Z is set to be the wealthiest ever, in fact by some measures they already are (but don't feel it yet). I wish the whining generations would buck up and start fixing things instead of irritably waiting for someone to die and give them money.

Working class people have always been moaned at not to have kids if they cant afford them. So you cant whine about it now the reckoning has to be paid

@TankFlyBossW4lk the non thinking is astounding!

It's not just the UK it's all of Europe as a whole. Some famous businessman in the 90s predicted Europe would become the new third world against the emerging economies and he's being proven correct.

@Sourdoughandjam How are you going to support the massive increase in the population over 65 years? Who's going to work? In 1972 13% of the population was over 65. In 2043 , it's projected to be 24%. We already have declining birth rates.

Honestly, it's these kinds of non thinking voters that have pushed us into the decline of the West. Brexit, Trump hardly a surprise when these are the gems brought in as a serious argument by a population who apparently had access to free education.

There's a big difference between slowly working to ensure population reduces over time and having no children.

Do you understand the UK driver of population is not the birth rate?

Of course we would. Nothing is ever solved overnight.

@Sourdoughandjam So answer the question, how does a society with very few young people function?

@Sourdoughandjam

You said this

"Having no children or solo children isn't the bad thing it's seen to be for society. Quite the opposite."

Do you know what the UK birth rate is? The problem isn't too many dc...

Of course we would. Nothing is ever solved overnight.

I didn't say no young people or children. There's a big difference between slowly working to ensure population reduces over time and having no children.

Seems pretty ludicrous that blue collar workers now in their sixties and seventies with just about one brain cell to rub together own significant assets in property, are able to buy new cars, have savings and a good pension, and can holiday multiple times per year while we chumps have to struggle to pay a mortgage on a house that we can barely afford but have degrees, decent jobs, skills aplenty.

This is harsh and I don't agree that blue collar equals stupid but your post isn't wrong in that young people today cannot hope for that future. That's what has gone wrong.

If people in the UK stopped having babies tmw we would still be overpopulated @Sourdoughandjam?