Please, please, please put away your phones...

Yep. As displayed on MN daily, the bar for men as fathers is shockingly low.

Mums tend to engage with their children more than dads. Yet get judged far more when they aren't engaging, even at 11pm when the dad was there too.

Obviously not. A lot of mums aren’t engaging with their children at any time, that’s the point!

Would you do the same at 11pm? That's the difference for me with OP's example.

I wouldn't be engaging with my child at that time like I would be during a tube ride at 11am. I'd be hoping they'd nod off in the pram which they wouldn't be able to do if I was chatting away to them.

I agree

I agree, and stop.using the phone in the theatre too.

I had to tell a mum on the bus, who was stuck to her phone, that her very young baby in the buggy was being sick !
I often see mums engrossed with their phones, taking the children to school. The toddler is either way in front or way behind her. Mum wouldn’t know if the child had run into the road, been grabbed by some undesirable or bitten by a dog.
I don’t care what sort of a day the parents had had, it’s neglect to totally ignore a child in this way, plus so sad to see no reaction from parent to child. We used to use this time to chat about things we saw on the way, to socialise etc. Spouting inane rubbish into a phone instead of conversing with your child will cause problems.

You have deliberately missed out the most important part of this thread? Did you not understand the thread? It's not about just using tech. It's about using it and ignoring your child...which I'm not doing. You and your friend there are desperately clutching at straws

I also agree. It's heart breaking.

I don't have a child looking for my attention when on Mumsnet. What a silly post. I don't use tech when I'm around my children hence why it's taken me so long to reply to this post.

Nah

Parents need to expect better of themselves and do better for their kids.

No amount of bleeding hearts and gnashing and wailing about societal pressure can change that.

Not many wild animals have the kinds of diverse societal pressures on them that humans have.

It's not about excusing these maladaptive coping strategies, it's about reflecting on a societal level why parenting is so stressful that many parents regularly feel the need to check out and just how divorced from our instincts we've become.

Some of it, I think, is about the terrible judgement mums parents get when their child is still learning to be a bit bored and then kicks off in public. There is a strong temptation to pacify children immediately with devices to avoid being told that you are a terrible mum parent if you can't control your toddler at all times.

I don't agree that you can judge this family based on such a small snapshot.

I do agree that in general children benefit from their parents' attention, to a degree. And no doubt some families pay insufficient attention to their kids. Perhaps because of their phones, perhaps because of other reasons.

I also think children need to learn to entertain themselves at times, and excessive attention can be damaging. I grew up in the 80s. My mom certainly didn't see it as her role to be constantly talking to me and interacting with me and entertaining me - she did do think for decent chunks of time, obviously, and I had a good childhood. But I can also recall a lot of time when I was left to my own devices because she was doing other stuff/reading/watching TV, etc. and that did me good - I developed a good imagination and the ability to enjoy my own company.

I do think it's about balance. Yes I am sure some people neglect their kids due to phone addiction. I am equally sure some people constantly smother their kids with attention and don't allow them to develop independence.

And most of all I am sure you can't judge a family based on 10 minutes.

I don't think its a case of being on phones v interacting with kids. It's ok to ignore a child, they need to learn they cannot demand attention constantly. A mother who is at home with a toddler 24/7 cannot possibly interact all the time. So in that respect I don't think previous generations interacted more with their kids, they taught their kids to leave them alone at certain times. What's so damaging now I think is when a parent is tired of interacting they hand over the phone because they think it's one or the other. What's missing is the vital in between of doing nothing. Kids should be bored and day dream and sit there looking at people or traffic or whatever. Their brains need to process. It's good modelling for your child if you sit on the tube or wherever in silence and ignore them for a while. When the next generation come along they will never have learned to do nothing and will have a really difficult time in adulthood. I worry about the lack of cognitive development too.

Most wild animals don't ignore their offspring when they need them.

There's really not a good enough excuse to keep scrolling your phone when your baby's been trying to get your attention for half an hour.

Those that are suggesting a dumb phone please can someone reccomend one that has WhatsApp (family abroad) and a decent camera ?

Low doses of valium would not cause people to act "off their face" and was extremely common in the postwar period.

Edited to say: not that I think it was a good thing!! Just that this is not a new problem.

My parents didn't have phones. Their generation had different crutches.

People decompress in different ways. I've never understood the "wine mom" thing that goes on, but it doesn't mean I judge them for their way of doing things.

My point was that it's not just parents "these days" who struggle to cope with the demands of parenting - it's an old problem with new maladaptive coping strategies.

It's a bit deeper, in my opinion, than just putting the phones away.

Because we're the first generation of parents to have 'had a hell of a day"? Stop making excuses. It's inexcusable and the OP is right.

Not whilst out on walks or trips to the park they didn't. And they likely didn't spend 8+ hours a day on their hobbies completely disengaged. Plus their hobbies weren't really harmful in the way phone use is. Children copy parents. And now we're seeing sexual assaults becoming commonplace in primary schools because parents don't care their young children are accessing disturbing material, as long it keeps them quiet.

Some of the 'Snapshot' brigade have made me think we may be communicating with a potato.

So I'm inclined to agree.

Haha so true there’s so much berating and scaremongering around tech on MN, it makes me wonder if they’re logging on through the medium of a potato

Most people up that late on public transport with a child, would surely be giving the child attention, or at least trying to get them to sleep.

But people are weird and thoughtless.

The other day it was really cold, child in thin buggy, no older than 2 perhaps, no blanket or shoes, not that shoes would do much in upright freezing cold buggy.

No excuse not to have blankets or even a towel around the poor child’s legs, just stupid thoughtless mum, as it’s been cold for days, so even if she had to leave home in a hurry, she could have a blanket in a bag on the buggy as the weather has been freezing.