Please, please, please put away your phones...

@ExpatMum41

I'd also see other parents (yes, fathers too), walking their babies and toddlers while glued to their phones, either staring at them like the aforementioned mother or taking calls, but usually the calls (I'd sometimes listen for a few seconds, sue me!) would be about nothing particularly important.
Why, I ask, why can't they just wait until their children are either asleep or aren't wanting their attention to go on their phones? If it's important, sure, but if not, why? What, do they expect that when they're their deathbeds they'll sincerely be lying there wishing they'd spend more time on social media or something?

Have you honestly never heard of something called “addiction”?

I was about to post exactly the same. Yes, they might have been ignoring child so it would settle, but to not react at all, to not even look at the child when he put his head in her lap, is so sad. A little stroke, some words of comfort, you’d expect. Especially on the Tube when it’s usually busy and noisy at that time. A child that age might need more reassurance.

I hate it. There was a little girl about the same age glued to a phone on the bus yesterday, they didn’t speak to her the whole time and she didn’t look up from her phone. Both parents were staring at their phones too.

At my last job, I have witnessed two children who were sitting in shallow trolleys (no child seat) stood up. Their mothers didn't notice this as busy on their phones. Only reacted when heard trolley flip backwards and kid screaming.
If their mums were not staring at their phones, they would have probably either lifted the child out of the trolley or told them to sit down. I do hate parents who put children in trolleys where its not designed for them to sit in them.

I know one child's head was split open and was concussed (she vomited a few mins after). Was sent to hospital. Unsure about the 2nd child as that happened as going home via buying a few items.

If the mother didn't have her eyes glued onto the phone, her child would not be in pain and obtain a scar on head for rest of his life. When child and mother were in the process of leaving the store to board an ambulance, one woman shouted "you are more concerned about your phone than your child". Not sure if the mum heard this because when in shock, you don't hear everything.

OP,

Honestly, just mind your own business. You do not know what goes on in others lives. Pull up your judgy pants.

We were once in a coffee shop in Amsterdam with our 2 early teens. My DH was on his phone. This man came up to us and gave my DH a lecture about being on his phone, a bad parent etc. in front of his DC. My DH, a passive, gentle person, said nothing.

I on the other hand ripped him a new arsehole and I don't think this man will intrude/ stick his nose in/ be judgemental again thinking he will get away with it.

We were having a lovely break in Amsterdam and my DH was googling restaurants to take our DC somewhere really nice to enjoy a lovely family meal. Hardly a terrible parent.

Also, how did you type this post? Was it on your phone or laptop? Why dont you get off your device and go make some homemade play dough and bake zucchini wholemeal muffins from scratch with your DC instead?

Imagine you were that parent. It's 11pm and your kid has refused to drop off. You decide you'll try and make them sleep on the train on the way home after a long day. You don't engage because then no sleep will happen.

The kid put it's head in it's mother's lap. If I'm imagining the scene you describe (having plucked it out of thin air in order to go to great lengths to justify these parents' shit behaviour), I would stroke the child's head, not remain glued to my phone.

I think the point that some are making is that literally the majority of people are addicted to screens (mostly smartphones). So tut tutting at specific groups (families in restaurants, toddlers on trains - and ironically there’s actually a better rationale for the entertainment/distraction of a screen value in these instances than there is in 90% of other situations) is almost to deflect from the wider problem - that unless we act now as a society, we’re nearing a stage when EVERYONE will be hopelessly addicted. “Be a good parent” or “Show more will power” didn’t stop people smoking, and it won’t get people off their phones either.

As a point of comparison, global tobacco is worth 1 trillion, while Apple alone is worth 3 trillion. And Apple is just one company among thousands of tech companies which are happy for us to be gawping at a screen all day. In fact much more than just happy - their profits insist it. But unlike smoking, governments are totally complacent toward the grip big tech has over our lives. As long as we remain functioning economic units, they couldn’t give a shit if we are all zombified both in and out of the office.

How on earth would I know it’s me? Also, if they first thing they did was log on to MN as soon as they got home instead of resettling kids, going to bed or relaxing with their partner, then OP is probably spot on about a screen addiction!

I live in a flat and my balcony is right opposite a playground. I take my toddler there and often sit on my balcony, and can easily recognise the people in the playground in both cases.

There was one particular mother and toddler I'd see very frequently before the weather turned foul. She often put him into the swing.

I'm not kidding, she would always spend the entire time he was in the swing staring at her phone. She'd stand to his side, not behind him, but she'd barely be pushing the swing. She'd just be staring at her phone, occasionally tapping at it. He'd be looking at her, appearing to be desperate for her attention, but no, she was on the phone. He didn't even say anything, didn't ask her to push him, didn't make a sound (which my nonverbal toddler would) to get her attention and to ask her to push him.

It always saddened me. I wonder if she'll start bringing him again once spring restarts? I'm curious as to how his verbal development and how his attachment to her has come along.

I'd also see other parents (yes, fathers too), walking their babies and toddlers while glued to their phones, either staring at them like the aforementioned mother or taking calls, but usually the calls (I'd sometimes listen for a few seconds, sue me!) would be about nothing particularly important.

Why, I ask, why can't they just wait until their children are either asleep or aren't wanting their attention to go on their phones? If it's important, sure, but if not, why? What, do they expect that when they're their deathbeds they'll sincerely be lying there wishing they'd spend more time on social media or something?

I live in a former Eastern Bloc country, and in certain situations people tend to directly look at each other and say hello or at least acknowledge the other person's presence (being English, I don't always like it, but it's normal here!) but this lady and these other parents never once did that with either me or other people. It's such a shame.

Would we have the same reaction if the mother was engrossed in a newspaper or a book?
i remember sitting in cafes with my parents both engrossed in the sunday papers and having to keep myself entertained…

To be fair while these parents don’t sound great, it’s such a massive myth that mums in the past were super attentive and always interacted with their kids. Kids were often stuck in a pram at the bottom of the garden while the mum got on with household chores. And in the pre contraception days when people had 6 or more kids, no way were children given the attention they get today yet they managed fine.
Also the point about it being 11 pm is a good one. It might have been deliberate so that he would sleep. Although I wouldn’t have ignored - I’d have said “time to sleep” and then not interacted.

The thing is, it is healthy to ignore your kids! I was raised in the late Seventies/Eighties when we’d be sent out to play so our parents could get on with stuff - and have a break. Now family life is entirely child-focused and it can be utterly exhausting. So I get why parents rely on tech - I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same if my teen was little now. But the worry is the impact it has and your nephew not talking until he was three looks related. Our friend’s DD has speech delay too.

Came to say the same thing. You never know the full story when you observe a stranger, so try to take that into consideration.
For all you know that mother spent 3 hours prior to that on a train fully immersed in playing and distracting her baby from a tantrum or a melt down and she was taking 5 mins for herself once baby was more settled.

In OP's scenario the fact that this little one went a whole half hour without becoming distressed means, either, there's no issue here and she was actually half asleep or something.

Or that the child is so accustomed to being ignored they have learnt that displaying distress doesn't matter, and while they still seek attention because it's their basic need, the damage has already been done and they don't expect the interaction to come until they have made much longer attempts. Children that are accustomed to their parents reacting to them don't suddenly find it normal and not distressing for their parents to totally ignore them for prolonged periods of time.

I was bullied badly as a teenager, but thanks for telling me what I know.

Imagine you were that parent. It's 11pm and your kid has refused to drop off. You decide you'll try and make them sleep on the train on the way home after a long day. You don't engage because then no sleep will happen.

You get home, log into Mumsnet and see a thread that is very probably about how terrible a parent you are. All the facts match where you were and what happened.

How would you feel?

I generally do agree with you.

However, I used to look at my phone and deliberately ignore my baby at that age when I'd told them it was nap time and I expected them to be trying to sleep. And they did nap in their buggy a lot. Given it was 11pm I suppose they could have been doing similar?

You really have no idea what bullying is unless you have been bullied, trust me. People bandy bullying about as an accusation when they can’t formulate a cohesive argument. If you’d said we should be supporting parents to understand impact of using phones and ignoring their DC rather than publicly denigrating behaviour we have no context of, fair enough. But whining that it’s “bullying” is ridiculous.

Yeah I agree.
even if it’s been a hard day etc and you want a bit of doom scrolling before the fight of bedtime, you can talk to your child whilst looking at the phone or hold their hand or take it in turns to check out mentally and swap with other parent. Not perfect but sometimes u are barely surviving!

i get everyone wants a break but that situation is psychologically proven to teach your child that they don’t matter. Their ‘bids’ for attention go unnoticed/ not attended to. They can reduce the bids and it really knocks their self worth and confidence.

phones now are made to be addictive so it isn’t really your fault that you can’t put it down but as a collective we need to push back on this. They found a way to cash in on our time so keep us addicted wasting our lives and ruining our social connections, which makes us depressed and lonely.

while we are at it- if we’re out to dinner with friends can we speak to each other and not be on our phones!

This was the same with my nephew14 when he was little. His first word was “pad”. I remember him saying it over and over until dsis got it out of her bag. He’d sit at the table in a restaurant and at home on the iPad endlessly.

He didn’t talk until he was 3! My kids were talking sentences early as I didn’t nothing but talk, sing (sing and sing) music and gym groups. They did watch TV a bit. We didn’t shut up. Still don’t 😂

Even sadder is when the baby no longer looks for interaction. I see it so many times. Last week, young mum wheeled buggy to table in Costa and gave her toddler a ‘brick’ of juice and opened a bag of Wotsits for her. Then sat with her own drink snd her phone for half an hour or so while child ate a few Wotsits and threw the rest on the floor. At no time did either party speak to or engage with the other.

i think you are conflating separate issues though. I don’t think the declining birth rate has to do with phones or ignoring children. Some of the most attentive parents have just one child and probably give them more attention than any kid in the past with multiple siblings would have had. People are still having kids - it’s just not the people that the Daily Mail want (ie white and middle class).

Phone use/addiction is a huge social problem for all ages (I’d argue that it’s most serious for the 8-18 age groups). But I don’t think getting judgy on specific individuals/momentsis the right starting point. They were taking a very late train home after a presumably exhausting (and who knows, maybe traumatic) day.

My DC have phones of course but DS18 mostly listens to music and DS19 is often out with friends (uni).

You don’t see them glued to their phones but maybe that’s because I never was. Admittedly smart phones didn’t come along until they were at primary school but we’ve never had them at the table and always chat together.

Ignoring babies is awful. I’ve also seen mums pushing buggies glued to their phones. I loved talking to mine when they were little. I was told by my nanna to make the most of them so I did. She was right, I blinked and they were adults. I’m glad I didn’t miss it

The post about over population I used to think that and maybe it’s a good thing our numbers are reduced for environmental reasons. The decline in birth rate is already definitely happening in the UK though. Was in the paper yesterday.

Feel abit despondent sometimes what’s the point in having a a baby ignoring it for your screen then it grows up to be a screen obsessed teen itself?

Netflix? That’s like watching tv though. You are allowed to watch tv you know. You don’t have to be at the beck and call of your child all the time. It’s the ignoring them that’s the problem. The “literal haze” thing is a bit extreme when you’re referring to watching a tv programme. People probably said the same when television was invented.