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To think I have at least some sort of case against my employer? Or am I being deluded?

187 replies

Galllp · 22/03/2025 08:50

Length of service is 9 years. New manager arrived while I was on maternity leave. I came back from maternity leave a year ago in Feb and it’s been pretty awful ever since. I’m in a mid senior role.

Since returning I’ve utilised the flexible working policy as I am alone with my DD in the week (husband works abroad) and I do all nursery runs and so on. Manager is aware of this and there is no company policy that dictates number of days in the office. I tend to go in fortnightly. I feel my choice in doing this is relevant.

Since returning I have been given absolutely minimal work. I’ve been given trainee tasks and tasks that relate more to administration like amending a spreadsheet for example. I have had some decent work from seniors who aren’t my manager and had good feedback. But from my manager it has been fragmented and very inconsistent. We had a six monthly meeting in September where he said overall he was happy but we’d look to promote me next year (this year) and some waffle about pay when I said it felt unfair I was the only one not included in a proper pay review process when returning from maternity leave.

Fast forward to this February and the next six monthly meeting takes place. I’m told he wants me on an informal PIP. I was quite shocked by this but went along with it and he put in weekly meetings to discuss my ‘progress.’ Since this has been in place he’s given me a total of 9 hours work. Two tasks he hasn’t fed back on at all and one task (a draft of a document) he changed everything possible in it on a stylistic basis. He even changed certain wording that he himself has previously used.

The weekly meetings have been a total waste of time. He’s spent perhaps 6 minutes talking each time and essentially saying there’s no improvement as far as he’s concerned. I don’t know what to do from here as I am utterly confused by it all and looking back he’s made comments like I work from home too much so I’m not getting the work (this is utter bollocks as one other woman in the team works from home almost exclusively and he’s extremely (too!) close to her). She is given plenty of work.

He’s said i am too focused on home life which is ridiculous. Clearly i have responsibilities as a mother but i am dedicated to work, always available and will happily work well beyond 5:30 into the evening where needed. He knows this.

I feel like he very much wants me to leave and is picking at any small thing to make life hard for me. I know when you’re in the middle of something like this it’s hard to know if you’re not seeing both sides. Am I feeling victimised unnecessarily? I’ve never had any issues at work before.

OP posts:
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ArabellaScott · 24/03/2025 20:10

Katrinawaves · 24/03/2025 18:40

Well unless she pre-planned her stress related leave it’s clearly not fraud is it?

The issue with what @Galllp posted was not that it was not possible that she could suffer mental illness as a result of stress in the future but that she was conspiring with a third party to claim she was mentally ill at some point in the future irrespective of whether that was true or not. That’s what was potentially fraudulent

Indeed.

UpMyself · 24/03/2025 19:49

I think that maybe there is more to it.

Katrinawaves · 24/03/2025 18:40

Gwenhwyfar · 24/03/2025 17:21

I have a colleague on sick leave now because one of her parents is dying. She needs to be there. Her GP presumably thinks the situation is stressful enough to warrant a sick note so it's not fraud.

Well unless she pre-planned her stress related leave it’s clearly not fraud is it?

The issue with what @Galllp posted was not that it was not possible that she could suffer mental illness as a result of stress in the future but that she was conspiring with a third party to claim she was mentally ill at some point in the future irrespective of whether that was true or not. That’s what was potentially fraudulent

HamptonPlace · 24/03/2025 17:40

get a new job ASAP. Never seen a more clear cut case of getting managed out....

Changeyourlifes · 24/03/2025 17:29

I’m taking my employer to a tribunal but honestly it’s not worth the stress. If you can keep him compartmentalised whilst securing alternative employment you will ultimately be the winner.

Gwenhwyfar · 24/03/2025 17:27

"For a long time I didn’t know who I could trust as one or more of my colleagues had to have given him those screenshots and I just didn’t know who."

Something similar happened at my work, but the person who snitched was stupid enough to have her name on the email/printout, which another person was then stupid enough to show to the person being snitched on.

Gwenhwyfar · 24/03/2025 17:21

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2025 05:35

There are situations when it's strategic to take sick leave

That's fraud.

I have a colleague on sick leave now because one of her parents is dying. She needs to be there. Her GP presumably thinks the situation is stressful enough to warrant a sick note so it's not fraud.

Tillow4ever · 24/03/2025 11:41

@Galllp your manager doesn’t have the initials DM does he? I was with my company for 10 years - I had been at exceeds expectations at the year end. My manager changed. Within 3 months of the new manager I was at below expectations and having everything micromanaged and watched over. The next thing I knew I was being invited to a disciplinary over it all. He never even put me on a PIP. Literally bypassed it all. Over the space of 9 months that man pretty much broke me. I’m still not sure how I survived it, but I fought my corner, took a previous manager in to the disciplinary with me (my current manager moved the fate multiple times because he couldn’t make it, then made it a day my former manager wasn’t working and tried to insist it had to be that date…. Luckily she was all over it and told him he couldn’t do that! I still think he was deliberately trying to make sure I couldn’t take her with me. I got signed off sick after breaking down in my doctors office. He hounded me with daily phone calls. I had a pre-booked family holiday which we went on. I wasn’t in sick leave for the holiday, I took it as holiday. But my doctor did sign me off for 2 more weeks after we got back because she could see I was still struggling. When I went back in (I had 4 weeks off total, the most sick I had ever taken in my entire adult life - more that everything combined in fact) he produced photos and posts from my personal Facebook page (private posts, I didn’t have him as a friend on there) and put me into a disciplinary for taking a holiday when I was sick!

Now I fought it all and I’m still here and he’s long gone. He was an awful man, a terrible manager - pretty sure he felt like he had to show what he was made of and picked me as someone he thought was weak (I had confided with him that I had depression and it was right after that all of the above started) to basically push out.

I will say this - if you choose to fight it, it can take a long time to get over it. I’m at 21 years now with the business and I still struggle to trust. Although my last line manager really helped me to start to overcome that. I removed all of my work colleagues from Facebook and pretty much stopped using it, despite having previously loved it as a way ti connect with people. For a long time I didn’t know who I could trust as one or more of my colleagues had to have given him those screenshots and I just didn’t know who.

So you can fight it if you want to stay there long term but it might take a lot out of you.

if you aren’t prepared for that, ask him for your compromise agreement. In the meantime, get your cvc updated and start looking for jobs.

It’s a horrible position to be in. I generally like everyone. I try to see the good in people. That former manager is one of two people in this world that I genuinely HATE. When he hugged me at Christmas right after all of this I could feel my skin crawl.

Good luck and so sorry for that huge post. I wanted you to know you’re not alone and there is a way past it.

AnSolas · 24/03/2025 08:14

Katrinawaves · 24/03/2025 07:20

Well to get a Fit Note which allows you to stay off work, you have to be sufficiently incapacitated by your stress for the GP to certify you are not fit for work and that there are no adjustments the employer can make which will enable you to work. And this Fit Note needs to be reviewed regularly.

The role of OH is to support the employee with strategies to return to work safely and if the stress is caused by the fact that a PIP is pending, then the OH adviser is likely to say that the best way to resolve the stress is to get that PIP over and done with. Because until that is done, the underlying stressor will not change.

The strategic sick note became such a trope that employers have had to develop their own strategies to combat it - and these are what they are. But OP can of course give it a go if she’d rather be sacked for “medical incapacity” rather than have a protected conversation or be made redundant which both seem more realistic options are. And assuming she isn’t prepared to meet her employer’s work expectations so won’t pass a PIP

Its not the PIP which is causing the feeling of being victimised its the managers ongoing method of management.

The PIP the manager is attempting to do is putting his organisation at risk. He needs to be removed or at least supervised by someone who understands what they are doing.

Her staying in work/ return to work would include an obligation on the employer to manage her stress. Expecting an employee to continuing a PIP under a manager not competent in the process becomes a wider organisational issue. To use a poor example if the OP had a fear of dogs and another employee has a service dog. Expecting her to work in an office with a service dog is unreasonable but both (OP & dog) can work on site by moving her to a new office where she will not cross paths with the dog. For the PIP process to be seen to be fair the employer needs to take account of the broken relationship which at least in part is down to the managers poor management style.

If the manager is creating a problem to force her from the role once she is moved to a new line manager and a normal work relationship resumes (as the OP has stated she has sucessfuly finished projects for other managers) the stressor is removed.

Daisyvodka · 24/03/2025 08:13

I've read this whole thread and even if you aren't officially 'management' I don't understand how your role could be mid-senior and you'd need to wait for task allocation, or why if he wasn't allocating you tasks, you wouldn't just naturally collaborate with colleagues to share the workload, so I imagine it's a very specific industry that might be worth sharing.

Karen4President · 24/03/2025 07:31

Galllp · 23/03/2025 12:51

@RoachFish i agree with your points but I don’t think my choice to utilise flexible working should mean he is trying to purposely find fault and alongside that completely ignoring the good work I’ve done.

but what good work have you done OP? (I don’t mean that nastily as this could be the fault of the manager).

looking at this from an outside perspective and assuming I’ve not seen your posts and don’t know your view that your manager isn’t giving you work, what other people will see is this:

-hardly ever in the office
-hardly ever doing/producing any work

therefore they’ll be questioning whether the baby is in nursery and you’re actually looking after it rather than working and questioning where your priorities are as we all know a mother puts kids first and not work

you either need to leave or to make sure that you resolve points 1 and 2 which means more time in the office and making sure you do more work (you’re aren’t mid-senior if work is allocated to you).

Katrinawaves · 24/03/2025 07:20

AnSolas · 24/03/2025 00:51

I gather that you have never been bullied or seen the impact that it can have on the individual being bullied or understand what kind of stressers are involved.

Even if the OP was being treated fairly and that she is mistaken in the managers intent /objective she as a result of what is happening she is feeling victimised. Its not necessary to be comletely incapacitated.

A underlying cause of her feeling victimised is that she no longer trusts her line manager.
People would quote insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results if she was sticking her hand in a fire and expecting not to be harmed or if the OP was in regular social contact with a MIL who stresses the OP. Why would that principle differ when its a professional relationship which has broken down

Well to get a Fit Note which allows you to stay off work, you have to be sufficiently incapacitated by your stress for the GP to certify you are not fit for work and that there are no adjustments the employer can make which will enable you to work. And this Fit Note needs to be reviewed regularly.

The role of OH is to support the employee with strategies to return to work safely and if the stress is caused by the fact that a PIP is pending, then the OH adviser is likely to say that the best way to resolve the stress is to get that PIP over and done with. Because until that is done, the underlying stressor will not change.

The strategic sick note became such a trope that employers have had to develop their own strategies to combat it - and these are what they are. But OP can of course give it a go if she’d rather be sacked for “medical incapacity” rather than have a protected conversation or be made redundant which both seem more realistic options are. And assuming she isn’t prepared to meet her employer’s work expectations so won’t pass a PIP

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2025 05:35

There are situations when it's strategic to take sick leave

That's fraud.

Bunny65 · 24/03/2025 02:13

it seems very clear to me that this manager is trying to undermine and bully OP out, for whatever reason. I would go to HR and definitely use a lawyer to help negotiate a settlement deal if it comes to that. For all she knows he’s been told from above to cut costs. Not giving her work and then trashing her work - well sad to say I’ve seen it all before.

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 24/03/2025 00:58

Katrinawaves · 22/03/2025 09:17

The advice to “go off sick” is outrageous and unprofessional from a lawyer! Basically they are advising you to commit a fraud on your company by claiming to be ill when you aren’t.

It wouldn’t work in my company anyway as we would have you at OH immediately if you were signed off during a disciplinary or performance management process and would continue with it in your absence.

I don't see it like that at all. The way this man is treating the OP must be causing immense stress. There are situations when it's strategic to take sick leave. You could send her to OH all you want. OH only parrot back what the employee tells them.

You can't actively performance manage someone when they're off sick! That's crazy. They're not 'performing' at all ergo that can't be managed. A disciplinary can carry on but this is not a disciplinary.

I'd be looking at the discrimination angle if I were you @Galllp. Your manager clearly isn't very bright.

Could you go over his head to his superior?

AnSolas · 24/03/2025 00:51

Katrinawaves · 23/03/2025 20:21

It’s also an odd form of mental illness when you can know in advance you will be completely incapacitated if a particular set of events is set in motion!

I gather that you have never been bullied or seen the impact that it can have on the individual being bullied or understand what kind of stressers are involved.

Even if the OP was being treated fairly and that she is mistaken in the managers intent /objective she as a result of what is happening she is feeling victimised. Its not necessary to be comletely incapacitated.

A underlying cause of her feeling victimised is that she no longer trusts her line manager.
People would quote insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results if she was sticking her hand in a fire and expecting not to be harmed or if the OP was in regular social contact with a MIL who stresses the OP. Why would that principle differ when its a professional relationship which has broken down

Lovehascomeandgone · 23/03/2025 22:41

I would have a conversation with ACAS and your union rep, sounds like he is trying to push you out. Goes without saying you need to keep a chronological record of all of this, what he said, who present, what you asked, how it made you feel etc.

hippo100285 · 23/03/2025 21:43

Sounds like he’s managing you out. I would speak to Acas and make sure you are logging everything you are doing to refer back to.
If they do manage you out/you leave before it comes to that, it could be constructive dismissal.

Trainingfairy · 23/03/2025 21:01

EdgarAllenRaven · 23/03/2025 20:42

@Trainingfairy I'm not under any rock.... going in once per fortnight is quite rare these days, most employers except a bit more attendance in the office than that?
But also it's been made very clear to OP that he wants her in the office more, so that is my suggestion to her if she wants to keep her job with this particular employer. Or at least have that conversation outright.
If she wants to work somewhere with more flexibility, she should look for another employer, that was my advice.

You've missed a bit @EdgarAllenRaven ; she stated "Since returning I’ve utilised the flexible working policy" - so they already have a formal flexible working arrangement, in which case if that is something that employees can access and it is suitable for the kind of work that the poster carries out, why is it a problem? Perhaps it's more of a problem for some managers who can't actually handle the fact that employees can be trusted, act like adults and be extremely effective in their job role regardless of whether they are in the office or elsewhere.
Personally, I have always been far more effective when I needed to get things done without being distracted by a noisy office environment; each to their own, but it shouldn't be presumed that employees are only being productive when they are in the workplace - those days are gone.

EdgarAllenRaven · 23/03/2025 20:42

@Trainingfairy I'm not under any rock.... going in once per fortnight is quite rare these days, most employers except a bit more attendance in the office than that?
But also it's been made very clear to OP that he wants her in the office more, so that is my suggestion to her if she wants to keep her job with this particular employer. Or at least have that conversation outright.
If she wants to work somewhere with more flexibility, she should look for another employer, that was my advice.

Trainingfairy · 23/03/2025 20:34

EdgarAllenRaven · 23/03/2025 19:41

You have been back a year already and if you want to stay at this company you will have to work according to the new boss’ rules.
If I were you , I’d be going in 3-4 days per week and I’d be actively seeking out more tasks. Ask what you can help with, what else can you do?
He clearly doesn’t understand working from home, so you have to go all out to prove your value now.
Otherwise just look for a new job.

There are 5 sentences in your post and for every one I would ask the question "Why"?
The workplace has changed and we are (presumably) dealing with adults who take responsibility for their actions and performance. It's also perfectly possible in many jobs to do an equally good job whether in the workplace or elsewhere.
Time to come out from under that rock @EdgarAllenRaven

Trainingfairy · 23/03/2025 20:28

Icyboy · 23/03/2025 20:00

Sounds to me like he is right, everyone else is at work whilst you go in once a fortnight and think everything is hunky dory, like most on here you're deluded!

Consider yourself lucky I'd say.

Is it chilly on that high pedestal on which you've placed yourself @Icyboy (it's what it says on the tin lol!)
I sometimes wonder if we have advanced the workplace at all in terms of treating people like adults when we have opinions like this.

Gwenhwyfar · 23/03/2025 20:26

Icyboy · 23/03/2025 20:00

Sounds to me like he is right, everyone else is at work whilst you go in once a fortnight and think everything is hunky dory, like most on here you're deluded!

Consider yourself lucky I'd say.

She's at work too. She works from home and they don't have a rule about how many days to be in the office.

Gwenhwyfar · 23/03/2025 20:24

ArabellaScott · 23/03/2025 20:12

Nobody here is able to diagnose the OP based on supposition.

No, the doctor will do that so the poster's advice to go to see a doctor was valid.

Katrinawaves · 23/03/2025 20:21

It’s also an odd form of mental illness when you can know in advance you will be completely incapacitated if a particular set of events is set in motion!

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