Upset by way govmt is managing disability benefits change

Interesting that you chose to ignore all my other points and focus on my perhaps incorrectly using the word ‘most’ in this context.

Okay, then that 20% will likely no longer be able to work. Less money in their pocket means less money in the economy. A country does not run like a household budget.

You suspect? Horrible language to use. Treating disabled people with suspicion and mistrust is exactly what these proposals are perpetuating.

Do you understand there are other ways of contributing to society and to the economy? And that a person receiving PIP who doesn’t work (at a job in this case, everyone works in some form even if it is simply to stay alive for another day - being disabled is exhausting) is of no less value than one who does?

Simply because it's far easier to take money from the vulnerable than any other sector

Yes, outrageous of her to correct a factually wrong assumption about how this will be administered. /s

You really have no clue.

Oh, that's okay then.

I'm sure all of the disabilities will just vanish by the next review and they'll suddenly have the ability to go out to work and not be disabled.

You should really do a public announcement, so people are less worried

This is just a silly take on the realities of life both in the UK and the USA. While both societies have many, many problems and flaws, neither is “fascist”, and it’s hard to take an opinion seriously when you’re that hyperbolic. Both have welfare systems and support huge numbers of vulnerable people. I know, being one of them! It should be possible to have a serious discussion about the unethical nature of some aspects of the Green Paper (and there are also a few good parts, like the suggested plan to end reassessments for the most seriously disabled with incurable conditions) without being so alarmist.

Ok, so PIP payment's amount to £34 billion per year. 0.2% of that is £68 million.
So pip fraud costs tax payers £68m and you think that's OK?

I think there's a mixture.

Mental health is much better understood now, and so more diagnoses. That's good.

For example my dd has a diagnosis of anxiety. Often when she's talking about it, I think "oh yes, I feel/felt like that too".
But when I was little I don't think anxiety was a diagnosis at all - dm used to call me "highly-strung".

But the flip side of the diagnosis, and it being understood, is that I can see with my dd, whereas I had to get on and developed strategies to cope, she says "it's my anxiety" and expects a buffer either in not having to do it, or being given more support.

There are times when that support is fantastic and I wish I had had it.
But there are times when I think that if she had to get on, then she'd have developed ways to cope and she would then be able to do more.
When she does push through, she often gains a sense of achievement which is really good for her mentally, and then she is able to do more. But it's often too easy to just say she can't, and then she can start spiralling downwards.

So the diagnosis has in some ways made her less capable and more disabled by having it, because she can hide behind it when she doesn't like the idea of doing something.

But ideally there would be mental health support to help people get through things and learn strategies - and that isn't in place. Dd had emergency counselling with CAHMS once (took 6 months to get it from being told it was urgent and top priority) and went back on the waiting list a year later as non-urgent and didn't get seen in the next 4 years before she dropped off the radar at 18yo. That's how bad the situation is.

There are people that truly need the support - yes, even for things like anxiety when getting out of the house is to hard for them to manage.
But the issue with mental health is it is almost impossible to distinguish between them and the person who decides that's the easier option to working. Someone might look fine when they come out of the house to go to the cinema, but not be fine if they're coming out to work and that is not they being "silly" it is a fact of their life.

In all honesty, there have been times with dd where I didn't know if she was really having a crisis or whether she just didn't want to do something (there were times I knew - both ways!). And if I, as her parent who knew her well, couldn't tell - then what hope is there for someone who has to make a decision on seeing them for perhaps an hour a week.

But the sad thing is that with people trying it on, it's ultimately the people who genuinely struggle who will probably be the biggest group to lose out, because the former group will put their energies into finding a different way of being supported.

Of course there is such a thing as over diagnosis.

That doesn’t mean the government is acting ethically. I don’t think they are.

And you think taking the money off of disabled people who rely on it will work?

e. Isn’t this connected to the collapse of NHS, waiting times and people awaiting for diagnosis, unable to get treatment.

the people I know of are milking the system - claiming decades of arthritis whilst being a cash in hand cleaner etc.

it’s so hard to know what benefits people are getting including housing benefit

PIP exists to 'help with extra living costs'. My (adult, 32 y/o) son gets both elements at the highest rates. He has a congenital life threatening and life limiting condition. Basically, half his brain is bone and he can have 100s of seizures a day. As it goes we (parents) don't claim the carers element because we both (now) earn fractionally too much. However, when my son was younger, we were permanently well below the poverty line because we simply couldn't work due to 24/7 care responsibilities with no practical input from any other services. I mean none. Zero help.

Imagine that, your whole adult life blighted by a cumulative total of years spent in intensive care units and, when at home, on alternating wake nights. My son now lives independently and spends most of his PIP on his extra living costs, e.g. having someone come round every day to shop and cook, adaptations to his flat, cabs because he can't physically walk (paralysed down one side of his body), etc.

This change in the benefit structure, that's highly unlikely to affect my son, is just one more attack on disabled people and their families. However, PIP was never designed to be an income 'top up'. And what I'm seeing here is lots of people saying that they won't be able to afford to live without this 'top up'. They're not talking about 'extra living costs'. So the real problem would seem to be that the basic benefits aren't enough.

regarding jobs people are not opening up vacancies because of the increase in employers NI and Min wage increase (however I am fully on board with this one!) I manage our outside contracts at work and so far 3 companies have uplifted costs by 15% to cover this and then actually make a profit. I personally think everyone’s tax should have gone up slightly as at least then we wouldn’t have jobs not opening up. My company is holding off opening up new vacancies and basically only recruit if someone leaves now

It's all the jobs that currently we are having to fill with migrants - carers, healthcare assistants etc. Thousands of people from overseas are managing to come and find work in the UK so how can people born here not manage to

80% of Pip claimants do not work.

So no most are not using it to participate and contribute to society by enabling them to work.

I suspect of the 20% who do work few will work full time so I'd imagine the amount of PAYE tax paid by PIP claimants is very low given the personal allowance before which you don't pay any income tax.

@PuytA bit off thread but has your son registered with job agencies as with a fork lift licence there should be work out there for him.

https://www.youtube.com/live/rkUZCRNQTLU?si=blBiS8rklKEQD6q9

I highly recommend this video breaking down the changes fully. News outlets have not gone into detail about the changes and have gone for fear mongering.

My son has been out of college since last year.
He's been on UC since. Applying for all sorts of jobs. Shop work. Building yard etc

Hes done loads of courses through UC.
Got his forklift driving certificate theough them

Hes still not even had a single interview!

So what chance have I got?

It’s just not sustainable. unfortunately, there’s too many playing the system which is going to affect those who the system should be helping and are legitimate claimants

Well something needs to be done!

We have an unsustainable amount of claimants and amongst those are people who can work but don't.

I know of two people straight away that play the system claiming depression and a bad back to get benefits and do not have to work. One of these I know very well and although he doesn't live an affluent lifestyle, he is more than happy with what he gets to live. He is absolutely capable of working but knows the right things to say to the GP.

The system needs a change and people need to remember that the benefit system was set up as a helping hand to get back on their feet, not as a lifestyle choice.

Sorry about typos

In times of austerity the vulnerable are always targeted: disabled people, refuges, jewish people etc.
Wr have a messed up society and it's not because of fraudulent benegit claimants...its due to incompetant governments.

Where are all the jobs that they are pushing people to get?

The 0.2% figure isn't serious estimate of the amount of people that are exaggerating or even completely fabricating their claims. If you were to think sensibly about how this kind of fraud would be proven, it would need a lot of intense surveillance and interrogation which would be hugely demeaning and intrusive for genuine claimants to go through and also hugely expensive for the state to administer.

Nobody, including the DWP have any idea about the number of people that are committing fraud. There are lots of people that are encouraged to describe their worst days and use specific phrasing to ensure they are awarded benefits. This could technically be fraud if it resulted in a claim being exaggerated but the people doing it wouldn't even know that this is what they are doing.

I think the Right wing is dangerous but this Labour government is certainly not that. To pretend they are is ridiculous! This could have been far worse if Reform had got into power. The fact Labour are carrying out these reforms shows how necessary they are and how we can't keep on going as we are, accruing more and more debt to fund our welfare habit.