To ask how to teach boys how to respect women?

@YourLuckyPearlGoose

I agree but in my case I saw what I’d didn’t want to be as a husband and father rather than copying I went the other way so it’s possible.

Maybe if there is no male role model around then explaining what women may find desirable or attractive in a man could work As an antidote to Mr Tates ideology?

I am not trying to minimise but the recent competency being sexy thread on here is a good example. I discussed that thread with other men and will be discussing it with my own boys.

The realisation that by being a grown ass competent man is highly attractive is an eye opener for some men as sad as that sounds. It taps into the what’s in it for us narrative as to why getting on board is good for everyone.

yet It’s always women that are sahm or go PT.

on here again and again we see “my salary doesn’t cover childcare”. We see women divorcing who have no ability to support themselves because they gave up work when they had children.

the gender pay stats are real. In our (massive) organisation figure show it’s almost exclusively women PT or choosing not to be promoted.

there are still a lot of sahm. They’re not rare.

Encourage them to recognise the poor behaviour of their peers and to call them out on it.

Women have been speaking out for years, toxic men only listen to other men. It's a men's problem, and we need to turn this on its head.

Boys learn from how men treat women. There is only so much women can do to influence how men/future men treat them.

I was struck by another parents saying her daughter (beautifully behaved) was always made to sit next to the boys with challenging behaviour and when the teacher was challenged about it they said it was because she was a good influence. That sounds superficially fine but really is teaching all the child that women have a responsibility around modifying male behaviour rather than men behaving better

also keep your boys away from computer games that glorify toxic, violent behaviour until their brains mature.

and talk to them

This makes no sense. Most women can’t give up work and take on traditional roles. It means there’s more pressure on men to share equally in the housework…

I think women giving up work and taking on traditional roles has a bigger effect than we think.

i was listening to a radio phone in on this and a woman was saying her 15 year old boy had “suddenly” developed all the ideas about women staying in the kitchen and essentially being a male support system, with everything being paid for with the man’s money.

she swore it was nothing she did. Then went on to say she had never worked, had no financial independence, and had spent the child’s entire life doing all the domestic drudgery. So when it came to divorce, the boy was saying things like you just want dads money, you need to get in the kitchen where you belong etc etc.

how she was surprised I don’t know, as she’s effectively modelled those ideas his whole life. He hasn’t seen women working and being independent, only being “provided for” in return for domestic work.

boys need to see women and girls as equals. Independent. Not reliant on men, as that then gives men the power over women.

Agree with this … and we have come to a critical point with VAWG (and male on male violence before anyone jumps on me) that we need to go nuclear on the situation. So men and boys in the public eye should be more vocal in condemning the bad behaviour to counteract twats like the Tate brothers, be more proud to model and celebrate the right thing so our boys can see it in action. Those already doing it then have affirmation that they are one of the good ones.

in fairness (mum to a daughter) we know lots of good young men and I make a point in praising them often. Hopefully messages like this help to reinforce that they aren’t the problem

Who are the gym brothers?

Oh that's alright then ... Cos everyone has one of those who is suitable and present 🙄

I don't really do it consciously, he gets plenty of positive reinforcement thanks. What he doesn't have is a decent male role model in the house and my male relatives are ok but not around much. Would you prefer I tell him that he can be a lazy slob and still expect to have a successful relationship? And in ten years have some girl posting in here in despair about how to get him to change?

You don’t. Their dad does.

Do you think that’s positive for his self image & self confidence?

sounds like you’re passive-aggressively undermining your own son.

why are you feeding him messages via your interactions with your daughter???

this is a really damaging approach IMHO.

surely you want your son to bring the type of stable self esteem to his relationships with women that reduce negative behaviour?

Model being kind. That's what my dad did. I also read somewhere that every child needs to believe they are good at one thing at least. I think that's true. Be careful what they are exposed to.

Make Sure you watch films, tv programmes with strong female characters. Such as Protection, or Motherland. Read books with both female and male leads. Never criticise your son for choosing what you class to be female toys/clothes/activities. I have noticed this for example a young boy picked up a pink toy. His mother told him to put it back and chose another one as his first choice was ‘a girl toy.’ That comment will now instil in that boy that he is better than what ‘a girl’ is.
Stop using misogynistic language such as Karen or bitch.
STOP criticising women for being no worse than men.
Never allow your children to form the narrative that males don’t have to do female tasks because they are beneath them. Make sure they cook, clean and see men looking after children.
Don't make it the mothers role to be the caring one, or the one who does all the cleaning.

I have a girl myself but I teach a lot of teenage boys in mixed classes in a stereotypically male subject.

I look for examples of females giving talks, fronting video clips, in positions of authority, writing articles. I invite female speakers. Basically if I can have a woman say it, do it or be it, I do. I prioritise talking to the girls at open evenings etc. The boys will take the subject anyway.

As a result (hopefully) I have a better balance in the subject now.

I am sorry to say though that the subject at university is even more male dominated than when I studied in the 1990s (in the UK at least), which I find disappointing.

As an aside, a couple of years ago I visited Bomber Command in Lincoln and realised the pilots flying those incredibly dangerous missions were the same age as my year 13s. I was really shocked by that. It brought home to me what is, and was, expected of young men in conflict situations.

I’m a single parent to 2 young men and a young woman and I think these factors helped

1. all of them were raised the same. They were all expected to do chores and had the same expectations put on them. If my dd was allowed something then so were my ds and vice versa.
2. Their friendships with the opposite sex were encouraged and not assumed to be romantic by me. I think that young men with female friends are less likely to end up as incels etc
3. no sexism allowed in either direction. Individuals might be dickheads but no generalising like “All boys are fuck boys” “All girls are manipulative “ sort of thing
4. never posting about them on social media and not discussing their thoughts with other adults including their dad (divorced) They could confide in me and be confident that it didn’t go further.
5. Not having gender based expectations of them and certainly no teasing or humiliation when they don’t follow gender expectations. This also helps with maintaining friends of the opposite sex. For example dd had a birthday sleepover one year (year 5?) and her brother who is a couple of years older allowed the girls to put makeup on him. I thought that he was a great sport where as a more toxic parent might be asking him if he’s gay.
6. My kids picked friends who were very similar to them (I know, I’m very lucky with this one ) They had similar boundaries like curfews as my kids did and they came from homes where the parents also had high expectations
7. I think that I kept my kids safe without being controlling. I didn’t track their location on their phone (at their request) and they always answered my calls and texts in good time. They were encouraged to be independent at their pace and trusted to make decisions. They were allowed to make mistakes but told not to repeat them.
8. I don’t compare my kids with each other. They are individuals with their own strengths, weaknesses and goals. They are praised for effort as well as achievements and as their mum I will help them achieve their goals.

And to add…understand that they do possess the strength to physically overpower a woman, even if they never intend to.

Not the man's behaviour? I'm no LTB-er, but I think criticising the behaviour should come before criticising the response.

I disagree with this as a Black woman young Black and racialised children have to learn about structures of oppression therefore young boys can and should learn in an age appropriate way about gender inequality

My DS reads MN along with me and he finds all the LTB stuff really worrying. There is a strong sense on here the men are kind of the enemy, and often no sense that men can be worked with to improve family relations.

I think one thing we could do is to make sure that we do not treat men as though they are the enemy, but talk about them as though we do really want them to thrive and be part of the family.

Books with female protagonists, and all kinds of different people represented.
Think about whether the movies you are watching pass the Bechdel test.
Think about the culture at his hobbies.
Encourage friendships with girls as well as boys.

Karate teacher, Scout leader, church youth leader etc. Surround them with positive male
role models as far as possible.

^ See my reply upthread. However admirable, 9 or 10 year old boys cannot and do not understand 'structures of oppression'. But they will understand rules and good male role models.

(P.S. I'm going off line now, but thanks for the discussion)

If they're 14-15, yes, I'd agree, but not if they're 9 or 10. Boys generally don't understand the 'issues' at that age in a sophisticated way, but they do need rules/role models. Just my view of course!