To ask how to teach boys how to respect women?

You see, I can’t comprehend that as a single mother to a 14-year-old boy. He’s never looked at porn. He’s never had access to social media that’s not monitored.
how much time is he spending with his friends and can that be reigned back in so that you’re spending more time with the family?

An not matter how much the phone is monitored or locked down, they can access this stuff anywhere (on other people's devices, for example…)

This

Of course, but the oldest is 'boring' and old (🙄) and doesn’t understand (he isn’t, but has a totally different set of peers, but is at a different life stage. The middle is 'boring' and doesn’t understand.

It's scary how much influence his friends have. His moral compass seems to have totally changed. I hope the nice boy underneath is still listening.

I agree with a lot of what pp ate saying about modelling behaviour etc. But did everyone reas the report recently about the extent of rape culture in primary schools? The root of it all is online. Andrew tate and his ilk, degrading porn etc. If they're watching this stuff for hours every day then it's not going to matter how their parents split household talks, frankly.

Managing access to smart phones, managing access to content, checking what they are accessing, and then when they're old enough to not have this managed for them, discussions about various types of content eg why porn is so damaging to real relationships, is probably going to have the biggest impact (on top of modelling behaviour etc)

There was an interesting episode of The Today Podcast recently called Adolescence and the crisis of masculinity where a woman who’d done interviews with teenage boys was talking about this

i have this book and still read and refer to it. One or two things quite outdated, but the bulk of it is still very relevant and a very good guide.

I have two (absolutely lovely) little boys. The main thing I do is show them how they should behave.

I'm lucky to have a husband who takes this incredibly seriously, but even without that there are things you can do. For example, both of mine are expected to help around the house in an age appropriate way, and I prompt them to think about what needs to be done too (hmm let's see, is that anything dirty or messy in this room?). I prompt them to think about others in small ways (Granny hasn't been feeling well, I wonder if there's anything we can do to cheer her up? Your brother looks like he's finding that tricky, I wonder if he needs help?).

I make sure that books and tv shows are appropriate and purposefully choose media that inverts gender norms. Tell my boys that I love how kind, helpful, beautiful they are. And make sure they have access to dolls, toy kitchens, and other traditionally 'girly' toys.

I don't ignore how terrible toxic masculinity is for boys either. Emotions are a really big thing in our house. No one is told to stop crying or not to be silly when they are upset. We read books and play games about emotions and have a check in every day. And we model as well as teaching ways to regulate ourselves when we are upset or angry.

At the minute they are small enough to keep them away from negative male role models. As they get older we will incorporate more discussions into what they observe from others in an age appropriate way.

Agree with modelling behaviour. Also I think reading is very under rated for boys. It is the best way to get empathy for others and grow that side of the brain. It feels as though a lot of boys don't seem to understand women have feelings or are real at all, let alone try to understand why they behave a certain way. All part of the reason they don't choose psychology - who cares why people do stuff if it doesn't affect me/I don't need therapy! We all know the guys who say that are the ones who need it the most.

I think books written by women or with lead female characters are good to start early. It's also about showing that expressing feelings is more powerful as a life skill than rage.

Have you spoken with your older boys about this? Maybe they have insight or sway with him?

I don't think it's ever too late. Might be harder, but with consistency the message will get though I'm sure.

I’m not sure what the other boys had said but I heard my then 14 year olds DS on his headset while gaming saying no a man can never ever hit a woman. I felt very proud at that moment.

His ex GF said she loved how he had an old fashioned childhood, what she meant was he had decent manners. When she broke up with him last year he was upset but also said he was worried for her as he knows how awful men can be. He likes gaming but has never been in to social media much. He was always made to help round the house and has seen chores shared.

But really it’s peers that influence the most in the teen years. My ex work colleagues DS is a hardcore drug addict that has been in prison more than once. Her other DS is so respectable as to be a little dull. The criminal one fell in with marginally bad kids that did a lot of weed. That was the start of it.

The most important behaviour you can display is not being a doormat and not allowing any partner treat you badly.

And my biggest pieces of advice for young men (and most work for women too) would be:

‘no problem is too small to bother me with, or too big for me to try to help fix’
’always get consent’
’start saving early - before you need money to live’
’don’t be a dick’
’don’t be a pushover’
’PROTECTION’
’it’s ok to have feelings/emotions’

Do you think that by age 21 it's too late or can you turn things around?

I’ve said in another thread somewhere that I’m having problems with my 14 year old son.

He has everything people are saying here. Two parents who share the load. Male role models who are respectful to women etc etc. We monitor his phone (but that’s nigh on impossible)

What we're struggling with are his peer role models and societal influences (no matter what we do in the home, toxic masculinity and porn is everywhere).

It's scary how quickly negative peer influences take over. I have three boys (23, 18, 14). There’s a marked change in the world between the influences on my oldest compared to the youngest. I think it’s linked to much to changes in social media and how much phones can do and how they’re used.

I raised my 2 boy as a single mum all there life they are both young men now and moved out.
We had our ups and downs and differences but raising boys in to men was hard work and it paid off.
They are the nices men i know.
It was not just about respecting women it was respecting everyone it works both ways.

I wonder about this too. My teen Ds has a lot of the 'alpha male' qualities, good looking, popular, athletic and a strong personality. I feel he is at risk of becoming entitled. Dh is the breadwinner and I work PT so am home a lot, therefore I can't model an equal household. I don't 'mother' him and fuss over him much, I don't serve him. I pull him up on things and don't take any crap from DH either. That's the best I can do. Also if we see something I perceive as sexist I discuss it with him and ask his views. Dh is a good role model, generally respectful and works in a very balanced work place and I think this helps.

I also try to make sure my DD knows she can stand up for herself and I encourage male friends too. The 'no boys allowed' attitude among girls can be very damaging in creating unnecessary divisions at a young age and can push boys into a male herd mentality.

How do we teach our kids anything? By modelling. It's served me very well as a parent.
Unfortunately generational sexism is embedded in so many families. I know several families just like Jamie's in Adolescence. Dad works manual job, sons are expected to play football, girls do dance. Mum works part time because she does all the household tasks and parenting. Let their kids stay up half the night online during the week. Very traditional roles, and the drama showed us just how damaging that household dynamic can be if the kids don't fit the mould, felt very close to home for me as my ds has friends in families like this.
All lovely hard working people but entrenched in the patriarchy and pretty slack on the parenting front. I was talking about the show to a colleague, we both have teen sons, and she had never even heard of an incel, she is one the families I mentioned. I don't think she realises the lessons she is teaching her sons about women.

I'm a fully grown adult middle aged women. I had to go on a speed awareness course a while ago and was one of the last to arrive. I walked to take a seat at a table with four other women and was told by the instructors (male) to sit at a table with four men instead. Annoyed, but I obediently took my seat. At the end of the course (only after I got my pass did I dare complain) I complained about having to sit with the man. I was basically told I was sat their to keep them in line. I did challenge this and say 'so it's the women's job to keep the men in line? Not your job?' They had no reply to this.

This is absolutely spot on! What you said about equal and enthusiastic participation in particular - what if a woman says yes but looks terrified. We should teach boys that consent is the minimum, not the absolute.

My daughter’s secondary school told the girls to wear cycling shorts under their kilts! They couldn’t understand why as parents we had an issue with it being the girls responsibility to add an additional layer of clothing to be considered adequately covered up!

I think teaching critical thinking skills is also really important, to help them think through some of the ‘manosphere’ stuff they will inevitably be exposed to. I had a conversation with my 13yr old son about his primary years recently. He spoke about how obvious it was that the teachers preferred and favoured the girls. Many teachers I know will privately admit that, and having worked in schools, I’m not sure I blame them. Even in DS’ school, which is in a ‘good’ area, the impact of some boys behaviour on the teachers and other students is hard to deny. Of the disruptive children in the class, most are boys. When the classroom has needed to be evacuated due to a student becoming violent, you can almost bet the violent student will be male. The teachers don’t generally fear the female students in the same way they do the large violent boys, who can and have caused injuries to teachers and peers.

In the conversation with DS, it was really helpful to talk through the issues and help him reason through the fact he was blaming the girls for being favoured, instead of blaming the fact that the poor behaviour of those boys underpins any teacher preferences he may observe…. Plus, perhaps be angry at the factors that are contributing to the fact that his education is also being disrupted by a handful of violent and disruptive boys. Regardless, it’s actually not the fault of the girls that teachers may prefer them. I’d rather deal with mediating some of the conflict between the girls than risk my physical safety when one of the violent boys loses his shit and attempts to pin teachers against the wall.

I don't actually agree that being a stay at home mum equals teaching your sons not to respect you. Surely the lack of respect comes from the boys not seeing the dads value the role and society running it down.

My mother in law was a sahm and her husband really valued and respected her contribution and saw it as equal. That was quite a common stance. I'm not personally a sahm but I m a bit perturbed by the idea that doing the cleaning, cooking, household stuff, caring is not worthy of respect and the only respectful thing is earning money.

As a stay at home parent myself, I don’t agree that it necessarily makes for a bad example.

My children have seen me study hard for a degree. My husband still takes his fair share of the household chores, cooking etc.

We don’t have to all make the same choices to be a good influence on our children. Lots of relationships have financial disparities between partners, it’s about how you model things like that to your children. In our family, all money is ‘ours’ not just the person who earns it. All chores are ours, not just mine, ok, I do more of them but I also have other responsibilities and my children are aware of that and therefore everyone chips in.

Really important thread OP
Well done starting.
Consent, I actually have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about consent, I think it's too weak with regard sex. Equal and enthusiastic participation is what I say.
Also, start little. I remember when my kids were in reception the girls would climb on the climbing frames and the boys would laugh if they could see their pants. The girls soon learnt to wear PE shorts under their dresses. This was all learnt behaviour and completely minimised by both the school and the parents. And although this is completely innocent little kid playing, it needs zero tolerance.
Older boys/young adults, tell them to be brave enough to call out their friends behaviour. Be aware of their own presence as well. If walking alone down a street behind a single woman, cross over the road etc.
I saw a great meme a while ago.
A few young lads chatting about how one of the fancied a girl but she wasn't interested and told him to leave her alone. One of them asked the man 'well, you know what you've got to do now don't you?'
Man replied 'yes, I'll message her on Instagram'.
Friend replied 'no, you're going to leave her alone'.
I think Sadik Khan 'say mate, to a mate' campaign was really good.

Boys and girls encourage them to talk about feelings I share mine and healthy boundaries. Give them an outlet for their emmotions