To ask how to teach boys how to respect women?

Model the behaviour you’d like to see. My SIL has huge issues around self esteem and believes she is stupid 😔 sadly my nephew now believes women are not intellectually capable and he’s only 9! We went on a visit to a science event recently and he asked a question which I answered correctly and he turned to my DH to confirm because “girls don’t really know things.” DH put him right straight away! But it’s sad that he believes this so young. I’d say if women respect themselves and insist the men in their lives do too, then that’s what the boys in their lives will hopefully see and replicate.

Also active hobbies, minimal screen time and no devices in bedrooms alone.

On being a SAHM to two boys, I emphisise that the household needs domestic work doing, and it needs money coming in. Both are important but different households share them differently. DSs have their chores- if they don't do them, that impacts the household (e.g. if they don't do the diswasher, the rest of the kitchen can't be cleaned and that's bad for all of us.)

DS1 remembers me working professionally. DS2 was a bit younger and has a shorter memory. They do respect my knowledge and skills. Mine are different to DH's but they're complimentary.

The advantage of having been a SAHM is spending the time with them to have influence on their foundations. Right from being 4-5 years old, it's so easy for them to be exposed to sexism, especially from children from household with rigid gender divides, and it was more time at home away from those influences. They've had time to have hobbies/ sports. Mine are both into running which has a healthy, supportive culture. Parkrun has got them into volunteering, and the wider community of sport. When DH and I were both working long hours with no family suppport and reliant on wrap around care (which DS hated), it was harder to add value to the DCs lives.

I can't say for certain, but I don't think I have different expectations of sons to if I had daughters. I've volunteered in Guiding and Scouting and the values in those environments aren't different (DSs used to tag along with me when they were young so a female based environment doing cool stuff was normal to them). My expectations are based on their age, capability and being a decent functional human. They also haven't been pigeon-holed into gender sterotypes e.g. boys have short hair and play football and can't paint their nails funky colours. They've had space to be themselves and develop their own likes.

We're in the first half of secondary school. It's a long time before I can be complacent about any outcomes, but the foundations seem to be keeping them on.a decent course so far...

Haven’t read the whole thread but yes! I have two ‘good’ girls and then an extroverted boy - I’m so surprised by what doesn’t meet the threshold for school to inform me about. I have really high standards for my children in terms of behaviour but I feel like my son is excused a lot by school as he’s a boy…

@DontKnowAnythingAnymore I have no idea. And you're right. At best, other parents sort of titter nervously when I'm standing up or sidle up to me afterwards to tell me they agree. Other times, if I express concern or dissatisfaction I'm told to let it go and it's just a small issue, or the implication is that I'm making a big deal over nothing.

I'm not sure which is worse: The ones who agree but are too scared to say anything or the ones that don't agree and are intrinsically part of the problem.

I grew up with parents who weren't scared to say what they thought or to insist on things that they thought were right. It caused me some embarassment as a teenager. But in retrospect, I am extremely extremely grateful for those role models.

And you're 'that parent' because others aren’t, otherwise you wouldn’t stand out.

How do we get to a society where everyone is 'that parent' and those who have toxic traits are the ones that stand out?

Things that used to be said and happen behind closed doors not only happen openly now, but are online and aimed directly at our children.

Yes, I also see this. I don't really understand why, but the trend is very worrying.

Such a good point @Thisissuss about reading. It's so important to learn empathy.

I really agree @CatsMagic respecting differences between the sexes is part of it. I think there is an element of misguided feminism, an idea that if a woman is not earning equal she is lesser. It only reinforces the idea that women's role as carers is worthless. Even when both parents are equal the fact is women provide more care for children because they are usually better at it and children seek it. This should be something to be proud of instead of dismissing it. I don't mean an unfair division of labour in the house in general, but the caring element.

I think as parents we can do a lot of the things that are talked about on here - model appropriate ebehaviour, encourage good male role models, talk about the issues and encourage the boys to see things from other perspectives. All of that is crucial. And I think it starts early - DS has always been tall and strong for his age. We started talking about "consent" when he was 2. Obviously not sex, the point was that if he was playing and someone was saying STOP, I needed him to understand that meant STOP. It served him well and possibly one of my proudest moments was when one of the mums of a girl at school sought me out once to tell me that her DD told her they all liked it when DS was around becuase he would tell the other boys to stop teasing them or whatever. He was about 9 at the time.

I've also directly challenged DS and his friends when they make comments or say things that are clearly innocently meant, but are inappropriate. eg the way they refer to male and female teachers is often slightly different and I'm quick to ask them why.

But I think we also have to challenge the wider society stuff. I am very much constantly on the edge of being "that parent" at school and clubs. I'm the one who very very firmly told the teacher that the next time "Johnny" touched DD's face without her permission, notwithstanding that the teacher had told him not to, that I had given her full permission to scream and push him off her (she told me that she couldn't do it because she'd get in trouble and I'd reassured her that I wouldn't stand for that). I'm the one who emailed the school to ask why the boys football club was using the lovely fancy new facilities but the girls football club was just on the old ratty playground and I'm also the one who contacted the school to highliight my concerns abotu the fact that DD and a few other girls had chosen to stop playing football because the boys were calling them names.

I am the parent who points out to my children that it is a bit disturbing that the senior leadership team at DS' high school are all men and in the feedback requested from the school, I mention this. Every time. When Ds started at the school I noticed it was always "head boy and head girl" and boy first every time. I may have made a cpmment on this and I'm sure I was not the only one becuase I have noticed that has shifted over the last year or two.

I actively sought out women to vote for when nominations for school governors came up.

Because that’s so easy to do and were made of money? Finding new jobs will be no problem, then?

All of my sons have had all of this. My 23 and 18 year old are the same. The 14 year old, not so much.

ETA he even has his older brothers as role models.

My son (25) is supremely alpha but he’s more feminist than me! His gf is his world, he sees domestic work as equally his responsibility and he treats family life as very important (both us and his gf’s parents). He hates lechy pervy behaviour and won’t hesitate to call it out in other blokes if he’s around it.

What made the difference imo:

• engaged hands-on dad who he saw pulling his weight domestically.
• Quality 1 on 1 time with both dad (wild camping etc) and mum (clothes shopping usually!)
• strict boundaries growing up about behaviour and respect, particularly toward his sisters.
• allowing him freely to experiment as a child with all of his sisters’ dolls, make up, dressing up. He regularly had pink painted toe nails at swimming even though he was a fairly typical scruffy Minecraft obsessed year 6 boy. No big deal.
• as a family we discuss and debate all the heavy topics. No judgement or embarrassment.
• we believe in living with integrity, empathy and honesty so that’s what we’ve always role modelled.

Role models are so important. If you can’t see it, you can’t be it.

We all have choices to make I think if I was in that scenario I’d be looking at where else you could live. If you think they’ll be consequences later than the line for your actions now you’ve got a nip in an act haven’t you?

There’s only 4 years, but I notice a marked difference between influences my 18 year old had and my 14 year old. The 23 year old (nearly 24) was different again.

The friendship groups they have make a difference as well. There’s only one high school here. Maybe my others were luckier with their peers, but society is not getting better. Just look at the types of people our world leaders are.

Children learn what they see - if they have good male role models in their lives that treat women with respect, that is the behaviour they emulate. If the father is absent, uncles, grandparents, family friends, teachers, youth workers, sports coaches can play a part in shaping young men into responsible respectful adults.

It requires a lot of thought. We have one boy and one girl. We try to not highlight differences between sexes. We say boys can like pink, some girls like dinosaurs etc... We give them equal chores. I try really hard to not say things like " boys are stinky" even as a joke. I have to bite my lip to not say "men..." when my husband falls short of my high standards again 😅 . My husband shares chores with me but a lot of it comes down to me asking him, so that needs to change.

Your relationship is his blueprint. You can talk as much as you like but what is he being modeled? It's why it's important for boys to have men in their lives who can show them what a decent human being is.

I find it very concerning that we are in an era where toxic masculinity in society seems more dangerous than the misogyny of yore.

Growing up in the 70s and 80s my Dad was a great role model. Equality was a thing in our household and my DHs too. The 90s workplace did have some awful colleagues. But in none of these scenarios was there a prevailing toxicity or views expressed aloud that was anything like what's happening now on social media etc.

Our son is very aware of the boundaries of what's acceptable. He's 19 and never been part of fiend groups influenced by toxic masculinity narratives. I did notice that some swear words that have meanings best avoided have become more commonplace. Not just those relating to toxic masculinity. 'Retard' was sometimes used to taunt my son who has dyspraxia, for example. The school went down very hard on anything like this. I remember my father explaining to me that 'Spastic' was never an acceptable insult to use. I don't think I ever said it, but do remember the swearing lecture as a companion to the 'Birds and the bees'

Good for you, but if I drive him to work, I lose my job. Dh leaves even earlier than me. Due to where we live, the clubs have more of less the same people.

I wonder also if there is a need for children to see role models of their own sex i.e girls are outdoing boys at school now because there are many more positive role models of women achieving but maybe boys are not doing as well as they could be because they don’t have as many positive role models and there are more people telling them what not to be then what to be as a modern man

I have a dilemma that when I grew up we were quite isolated (20 minute rural drive to school). This meant I missed out on some social friendships when I grew up and this I suffered because of this. Personally I’m struggling to find the balance between not cutting hime off (like my parents did when they moved into the countryside) and not letting him have too much freedom.

It doesn’t sound as though it would be worse to cut them off then to spend time with these people that you don’t like the influence of

I drive my son to school and back every day precisely because I don’t want this nonsense going on that I see on the buses and the stuff getting past round. That’s a sacrifice. I’m prepared to make to keep him safe.
Activities are with out of school friends sohe has different unrelated friendship groups.

Don’t know if it’ll work forever, but it’s working now.

I divorced my sons father for lots of reasons but I see now the damage that was done over the years.
Despite my positive influence and modelling behaviour of what I expected from my sons, and daughters, I see toxic masculinity in both of my boys, and I also see my daughters accepting these behaviours from the partners in their lives.
Interestingly, my soon to be 18 year old daughter calls my 21 year old son out on his behaviour but puts up with similar but different behaviours from her bf.
It's a minefield.

Do you monitor his friends social media? Do you stop him from being shown things?

When he walks to school with them. When he takes the school bus in winter. On the way home.

He had a couple of sleepovers, where things were awful, I found out. These have stopped.

Short of forcing him never to see his friends (which is something we talk about, but…) when they meet up for activities.

When they talk together at school. When they are at clubs - before or after, or any downtime. Never looking at porn doesn’t mean they’ve never seen, or been shown it.

You can’t cut your children off.

Both boys and girls need valuing and I think one of the biggest causes of misogyny is low self esteem amongst both boys and girls.

There’s a few things which need addressing, the first being that caring roles have been so badly devalued that women feel they need to prove their worth by earning money out of the house- we all need to start valuing and respecting the unpaid carers of the world.

We need to stop trying to pretend that men and women are the same. They arent, their bodies and physiology are completely different, and they are both equally important. Men are physically stronger to women, that doesn’t make women inferior, nor does it make women superior.

I think another huge problem is the access to cosmetic procedures and modern fashion trends - instead of teaching young people (and adults) to love the skin their in society says change it - tweak this, remove that - we should be teaching kids to value themselves and their own faces!