To wonder whether gaslighting is part of the UK medical curriculum?

Are you talking to the OP? Her daughter has incurable cancer. I don’t think “hysteria and paranoia” is at all appropriate here.

It sounds like you have a degree of hysteria and paranoia maybe?

I think in future I'd trust an experienced nurse-led diagnosis using AI more than a GP.

There is just so much more to know now, in terms of new knowledge around disease, new drugs, side effects, contra indications etc that how CAN one GP possibly store it all in their heads?

Edit: I've just tested Chat GPT for something I have had:

"Please assess this issue and give a diagnosis: I am female, aged 62, past menopause. My right shoulder is excruciatingly painful. The pain is there all the time but is awful if I jog my shoulder. My range of movement is very limited. I sometimes feel tingling in my arm and hand. What is my condition and how should it be treated?

ChatGPT said:
Your symptoms suggest a shoulder pathology, and the most likely possibilities include:
Rotator Cuff Tear – Common in older adults, often causing severe pain, limited movement, and weakness. Pain worsens with movement or pressure.
Frozen Shoulder (Adhesive Capsulitis) – Stiffness and pain develop over time, making movement increasingly difficult. This condition is more common in postmenopausal women.
Shoulder Osteoarthritis – Gradual degeneration of the joint, leading to pain, stiffness, and limited motion.
Cervical Radiculopathy (Pinched Nerve in Neck) – Tingling in the arm and hand suggests possible nerve compression, which could be linked to spinal issues.
Calcific Tendinitis – Calcium deposits in the shoulder tendons can cause sudden, severe pain and limited motion.
Next Steps:
Medical Evaluation: See a doctor (orthopedic specialist or rheumatologist) for an assessment.
Imaging: X-ray, ultrasound, or MRI may be needed to confirm the diagnosis.
Treatment Options:
Pain Relief: Anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen, naproxen) or prescribed pain relievers.
Physical Therapy: Strengthening and stretching exercises may help regain movement.
Cortisone Injection: If inflammation is severe, a steroid injection might provide relief.
Surgery (if severe): If a rotator cuff tear or another structural issue is found, surgical repair might be necessary.
Since your pain is constant, severe, and affecting movement, it’s important to seek medical attention soon. In the meantime, rest your shoulder, use ice/heat therapy, and avoid painful activities.
Would you like advice on specific exercises or pain relief strategies while waiting for medical care?"

It was indeed frozen shoulder, I had anti inflammatories & physiotherapy.

I think we're at the beginning of a massive shift in the way initial consultations work.

What a strange reply.

We all know our own bodies. If something is wrong, and you want your GP/first line medic to refer you for investigation, it is sometimes necessary to say you have 6 out of 6 red flag symptoms (even if you only have 3 or 4 out of 6).

A few years ago my husband had some odd symptoms that his gp decided were migraines, even though the symptoms didn’t fit. I wrote all the symptoms into google, it came back with a rare condition that the gp almost laughed off.
H was so ill he couldn’t work, couldn’t drive, felt dizzy when walking. He went to the gp repeatedly, had his eyes tested, no good.
Eventually he happened to see a locum who had been a neurologist, sent him straight to hospital to see his ex colleagues - it was the very rare condition that I’d googled on day 1. Sadly they caught it late and H had a stroke (recovered fully after a few months). Google and AI could be a very useful tool in more timely diagnosing, rather than solely relying on drs who often get it wrong!

6 years after that H went to the gp (different practice) because of burning sensations in his chest and down his left arm. The GP didn’t take blood pressure, didn’t send him for an ecg or anything, just said it was stress. 7 days after that appointment he had a sudden cardiac arrest whilst doing parkrun. Again he fully recovered!

These are just the dramatic events in my family, there are loads more that are annoying but not life threatening.

So many are fobbed off with awful results. A young mum in my area told she had IBS, eventually found she had bowel cancer and died a few weeks later. A mother told her child had a cold, died 24 hours later of sepsis. It’s so worrying.

(Have namechanged as that’s quite outing!)

I find GPs to be the worst. Possibly because they have a little knowledge of many things. I also think they have a bad habit of patronising mothers with unwell children.

To be honest I haven’t found private any bettter. I’ve paid £hundreds to be gaslit and fobbed off privately as well. Though the ones I’ve seen are private and NHS so maybe they just can’t help themselves. Perhaps a fully private doctor would be better. 🤷‍♀️

Just been reading about Katherine Ryan who has been diagnosed with skin cancer for the second time and her private doctor tried to convince her that the mole wasn’t cancerous but she insisted on having it shaved and checked. She says thank God she did!

@Seeingred70 sorry this is off-topic a little but where was the thread about the boy whose symptoms transpired to be a brain tumour? Would you be able to link to it by any chance? My husband has a similar sounding experience in his early twenties. Thank you

No, I'll add to your list (I've posted this on other threads as well), my mum had ongoing doctors visits for extreme bloating, breathlessness, pain severe enough to cause fainting, vomiting, prolapse, urinary difficulties - being fobbed off, it's IBS, its the menopause, it's fibroids, it's your diet, your weight, your lifestyle etc (she was an active size 14 - 16). The last diagnosis from her GP was anxiety, and she was sent away with a prescription for anti anxiety medication and the number for a telephone counselling helpline. 48 hours later she took herself to A&E, waited 17 hours, and was promptly diagnosed with advanced ovarian cancer. All the while she was berating herself for not doing her mindfulness exercises properly.

I think a lot of people have had dismissive experiences. I’ve actually found my experienced practice gps to be excellent but the more junior staff in paediatrics to be more of a challenge.

One example- I had a poorly baby- GP stayed open later than opening hours to see her and sent us straight to the hospital as a red flag for sepsis. The reg who was on that night missed a raging kidney infection in my baby and sent me away with patronising advice about nappy size. She was quite sheepish the next morning when I was back with a very poorly baby).

I’ve always had mostly positive stories about my Gp. But I’m in a similar position as you re my daughter. For months now she has been complaining of severe pains in her stomach, losing black discharge/fluids outside of her period. Like clots. One side of her groin was swollen. So after seeing a nurse she sent us for a scan that was 4 weeks ago we have the scan this coming Monday. And she’s been off school today with pains again. I’m so so worried but just don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere fast.

You just open up the chat gpt website or app and type a message to it….almost as if you were making a post on here. So you tell it that you’d like it to consider some possible diagnosis from a list of symptoms. It’ll come up with some disclaimer that if you are concerned you should seek medical assistance. Then go on and tell it who you are, age and sex (don’t know if it needs this), what your symptoms are, how long you’ve had them and res anything in your last medical history or family history you want it to know.

Have attached a screenshot. Gp spent months wondering if it was a weird eczema and saying if it carried on they’d refer him to dermatology but never actually did, just kept giving him tiny tubes of steroid cream.

My aunty visited the gp with bladder problems, blood in her urine for 2 years, was fobbed off. She had cancer. She was a smoker and a few questions should have alerted any gp to the possibility. She died soon after eventual diagnosis.

My dn aged 16 was poorly for weeks. Struggling to stay awake, sore throat, losing weight.
Dsil took her to the gp 3 times and was told it was a stomach bug and then a kidney infection. Dn was not improving.
Dsil rang me to vent and I asked some leading questions and diagnosed glandular fever over the phone. I worked in pathology at the time.
Sure enough dn was given a blood test at dsil’s request and she did have gf.

Yup.

I watched my mother be treated for mental illness as a child - she was actually dying of colon cancer, my dad took out a loan to go private and she was diagnosed almost immediately after 3 years of fighting her GP and eventually being told it was mental illness because she kept making appointments to see him. It was too late and she died 4 months later.

When I started work at 18, I took out my private healthcare policy. I’m 45 now and will never be without t it.

This is terrible. AI would be logical and non prejudiced too.

Interesting, please can you share more on how this works?

I have gynaecologist relatives who don’t really believe in Endo and think women exaggerate - so there’s no hope really. And one is a woman.

In the future they'll just have higher grades of nurse who can perform diagnosis with AI. Surgeons will probably have to continue. The health service will save a lot of money and have a better success rate, increased efficiency, better patient outcomes once they go down this route. They need to start trials if they're not already. I think the average patient has to visit their GP several times before they receive an accurate diagnosis. They don't even physically examine you anymore in most cases. The avoidance of patient deterioration, sickness pay, risk of dying or losing function, infection and ongoing pain would be a major step forward, alongside receiving a timely and accurate diagnosis.

I feel as though doctors are told to ignore signs of endometriosis, because if they actually identified the 10% of women of childbearing age who had it, the resultant laparoscopic surgeries to remove it (~ let alone the repeat surgeries every five years) would bankrupt the NHS. I truly hold this belief.

I’ve used AI for myself,and dh over the past year and both times it’s successfully diagnosed us where the GP has failed (in dhs case several appointments over a few months with different gps). Chat gpt had him diagnosed in minutes and he went to a&e and told them and was admitted as an emergency.

id been fobbed off for 20 years. Though mine wasn’t as acute as dh.

I will always use Chat GpT prior to any medical appointment from now on.