To think that men who evade paying for their children are a burden on society?

Steve's mates in the pub told him he was a dick for not paying, or Mike was likely to not be invited back to 5-a-side because his friends think neglecting your children financial is shit, and if Brian finds women don't want to date him as he doesn't pay for his kids then men would pay.

Late to this, but this could be written about any male issue. Rape, crime, porn use, misogyny.

Sadly I can’t see it happening. Men prop each other up, always have always will. It’s some fucking Neanderthal bro code.

Thing is men know the second that sperm leaves their body they have zero choice in what happens to it should it find a cosy egg to make a home in.

If men don’t want unwanted babies and children they need to keep their sperm safe and make sure personally that it cannot hit an egg.

Much like women wouldn’t trust a man saying his on the pill they need to shut up and wear the bloody condom, get a vasectomy or abstain.

It’s the women’s body his giving that sperm to. Once it’s in her it’s her and he gave it to her.

Yes. And she “pretended” to be on birth control. They had met when 17 and he started to want his freedom. So she thought that would sort everything.

She’s admitted it now and left him with the baby and she’s off.

She’s a nightmare.

He can though.

He can prevent the pregnancy even happening in the first place. That is opting out.

So what? Contraception is not a new thing and neither is the fact a woman can quite rightly choose to abort or not as its HER body - the abortion act came in 1967 so its been around for a while. Even my children have learnt about this at school. It's not rocket science, is not a woman's job to provide contraception more than it is a mans, it's just woman carry the full burden if it does go wrong. And as for abortion, well how many men pick up the pieces and help with that? Or is a woman supposed to do that alone too?

But a woman can choose to opt out of pregnancy, a man can't opt out.

A man can have a vasectomy and/or use a condom.

Of course, but she can also choose MAP or abortion as well.

If child maintenance was taken in to account for benefits you’d have a point, but it isn’t so you don’t. Obviously we all think parents should pay for their children but wether or not fathers pay mothers who are caring for their children and relying on benefits, it won’t make a difference to the benefits bill.

Obviously.

As can the woman…

How did he happen to sire four kids over 10 years when he’s so disinterested in them??

The man does have a choice: don't have unprotected sex or abstain.

Very well said.

The fact that the first post starts with “it’s not just men” says it all. We will never have real equality whilst women continue to defend shitty men to the hilt. Some kids will carry on living in poverty. Young girls will continue to be taught to have low standards for relationships. And the cycle continues.

I think they get used to not having to factor in the kids in their daily lives and logistics. They forget that for the most part, you work around them not the other way around. My ex is frequently put out that out teens don't want to see him if it means missing something that falls on a dad weekend and he won't facilitate.

20 (obvs doesn’t have regular weekly visits), 15, 12 & 10.

The older 2 have definitely decided what they think of him, the younger one idolises him and I think the jury’s out for my 12 year old.

Until very recently they’d just sort of accepted how it was but lately they’re definitely questioning why he doesn’t want to spend more time with them.

Ultimately he decided he didn’t want a family, doesn’t want to cut ties entirely becuase he’s not a total monster but doesn’t want to
combine his new life with his old.

No. There can be problems in both sides but they are so far from equal in impact and rate that to put them side by side on a thread specifically about male non payment in a desperate display of "whataboutery" is ridiculous. Plenty of women, including me do work full time once kids are in school but it's tough. Any sick day, inset day, failure of childcare and it's me who has to handle it. I earn a graduate salary so it's worth it but if I was on a lower salary it probably wouldn't be worth all the juggling it takes to keep a full time job. Meanwhile, thousands of fathers see their kids twice a month, can't possibly contemplate more because "work" and berate and resent women for requiring them to financially contribute to the children. I begged my ex for 50/50 and he wasn't interested, despite the fact we do the SAME job. I know plenty of women who would love to share contact more equally and the dads simply refuse.

A non resident parent shouldn't have to go to court to get custody... it's BOTH sets of parent's responsibility to ensure the children have equal relationships with BOTH parents.

Too many parents use the children as weapons... if you don't pay, you wont see them... that's blackmail!

It takes 2 people to make a baby, everyone saying it's the mans responsibility to take precautions... no.. it's down to both of you to take precautions.

But sadly it's the man who loses out... say a woman gets pregnant, and the man doesn't want it... tough, the man has no choice.

But if a woman gets pregnant, and the woman doesn't ea tit.. again.. the man has no choice

i would almost wonder if it's less damaging for them to not see him at all. talk about a constant feeling of rejection. and ultra poor role modeling, that it's ok to be a minimally involved parent.

what ages are they?

My ex wouldn’t compromise on contact arrangements last Christmas because his time with his girlfriend was more important. He will only have our children when she has hers. There must be no deviation or overlap. This is presumably so they can maximise their shagging childfree time.

i should say, that MANY men don’t want any more contact with their kids. Not all. And sometimes what they say is different to what they do. My ex would probably tell anyone who would listen that he wants more time with our kids.

As someone mentioned upthread many simply see the kids as an extension of the woman they’re sleeping with.

Yep, I couldn't pay my ex to spend more time with his kids. He has them from 12.30 until 3.30 on a Sunday. Often back early. Never expressed any desire to see them overnight, or for longer periods of time. Has flatly refused when I've asked for him to take them on occasions over the years.

This attitude is hilarious. Many, many women would quite happily allow their children more time with their fathers. They don’t want it.

I’m pretty fed up that this has had posts about how money isn’t being spent on children, a few pops about benefits, claims that children shouldn’t be paid for if they aren’t being seen (so now it is pay per view) and how nasty women trap all these men.

It may well be a few women, but on the whole it’s men, of which my exh is one, and if you think I’m somehow living a life of Riley on benefits then dream on.

I didn’t have children alone and I didn’t have them to claim benefits. If my ex paid then I would not need to claim as with my wage I have enough

Where is the government and media campaign against them?

It's focused on criticising single mothers and the children growing up in poverty reliant on benefits.

They should be jailed.

They do still have those powers.

They can do loads of things. They just don't as there's no political will for them to do so