To not pay for an unwanted child?

@Surf2Live well I'm not gonna become a lesbian just because I don't want kids and I don't expect straight men never to have sex with women. I mean this whole thread is about "biology" and yet posters seem to be forgetting that the reason the human race even exists is down to male sex drive. I think it sounds terrible being a man and thinking about sex all the time, I've often wondered how they get anything else done. But lets not pretend they're not hard-wired to want sex.

But it's pretty ridiculous really to suggest a person be celibate for life isn't it? That's like saying don't ever get married if you don't want the risk of marrying an abuser. Or don't have children if you don't want to face discrimination in the workplace/impact on your career.

By 'results in a pregnancy' you make it sound like something that just happens with the woman being a passive bystander.

I'm talking about cases where the man clearly indicates he doesn't want to be a father and the woman continues with the pregnancy against his wishes, possibly even having lied about the pill like happened to the guy I know. Basically, forcing him into a situation which a woman would never find herself in.

Why shouldn't the mother pay towards the upbringing of the child if she decides and wants to be a mother, especially if the man who doesn't want to be a father has to pay?

By 'results in a pregnancy' you make it sound like something that just happens with the woman being a passive bystander.

I'm talking about cases where the man clearly indicates he doesn't want to be a father and the woman continues with the pregnancy against his wishes, possibly even having lied about the pill like happened to the guy I know. Basically, forcing him into a situation which a woman would never find herself in.

Why shouldn't the mother pay towards the upbringing of the child if she decides and wants to be a mother, especially if the man who doesn't want to be a father has to pay?

You have the option not to have sex in the first place. If you can't accept the potential avalanche of consequences, fair or not, don't do it. It's pretty simple really.

A trite answer. When the mother needs childcare to work to pay, and is disadvantaged by being alone, her option is to turn to benefits. I don't have a problem with that of course, that's what they're there for - but a man who chose to have sex with a woman which results in a pregnancy then gets off scot free. That doesn't work for me.

I think the inescapable fact that causes division on this is that a woman is never going to be in the situation of paying for a child she doesn't want due to the decisions of a man made outside of control.

That doesn't necessarily mean that men should be able to walk away scot free, but it is pretty shit in some situations. Condoms, vasectomies, blah blah, but the fact is that we can still give up a child for adoption whilst the man has no option but to pay up if that's what we want.

We can never be forced into motherhood through failed contraception.

I understand but it’s the same risk the woman takes but she is able to abort if she wishes in the u.k. If this is your attitude, then surely you have to also disagree with abortion as the risk is being taken by both parties? A man should have no rights to force a woman to abort but he should be able to say he does not want any involvement.

It's easy for some, harder for others, but it's still a choice. Women have choices to get rid of children they don't want. A man wanting nothing to do with an unwanted child is no different then a woman giving her child up for adoption or aborting. Both don't want to raise that child. The only difference is women are given the ability to get rid of unwanted children.

And don't have a lot of options. They have one! Condoms are the only birth control option for men.
For those saying a man should get a vasectomy if they don't want a kid at that point in their life, should women who choose to get an abortion be sterilized? Why not?

Presumably the mother if she wants to raise a child on her own. Or both of them if the man wants to be involved.

Um, yes, you hit the nail on the head. Exactly that.

So who pays?

My opinion on this is very unpopular.

In cases where contraception has been used but failed (i don't count 'just' pulling out before ejaculation as contraception) or where men have trusted a womans word she's on birth control and been lied to, then i think that legally, if the man doesn't want the baby, but the mother does and chooses to continue with a pregnancy, then he should be legally waived of financial responsibility on the provision he is also not involved in the babies life and waives his parental rights. If he wants to be involved, either from the beginning or later on with mothers agreement, then he becomes liable for child support and parental rights. It's in or out, not best of both worlds being a dad but not paying.

It is completely the womans decision to continue the pregnancy knowing it would be as a single parent without financial help from the father, but also that he has no parental rights and she can block all involvement from him.

In cases where hes not given a shit about using contraception and been happy to risk pregnancy, he doesn't get an out financially, but can choose not to play a part beyond financial.

It is a biological disadvantage to be able to jizz in someone without consent?

I don't think I've once suggested abortion is a good form of birth control. It's an option open to women who don't want to be pregnant.
Some women do not want an abortion but also do not want to be pregnant or have a child. What would you suggest they do?

@Bertiel33 I'm a woman but childfree so I seem to have a different perspective to most posters. I don't want a child for moral reasons and I know I never have to have one. If a woman has an unwanted pregnancy I doubt posters would say "fuck around and find out" or "should've kept your legs closed" but if a man came on here and said his gf is having a pregnancy HE doesn't want, oh boy the responses would be totally different. Why don't you say "women stay abstinent during all your fertile years if you don't want a baby"? Surely you don't think abortion is a good form of birth control?

No doubt there are lots of deadbeat dads out there and men that would try and game the system and go back on their word if they were able to shrug off all financial responsibility. And certainly some men could be a bit more proactive about contraception.

But I do think a lot of women are very dismissive of this area. It's not women's fault, it's just biology. However, I do wonder if the people that say "if he doesn't want to risk being a father then he shouldn't have sex" would be so quick to agree with the sentiment that "if she doesn't want to impact her career then she shouldn't have children"?

Plenty of people seem to think that women should be compensated for their biological disadvantages whilst men should just suck it up.

I mean that they don’t get involved in helping women use contraception effectively. They don’t tend to offer to pick up pills or get in alternatives when their girlfriend has been sick or otherwise might not be ideally protected, or hassle the doctor to take out the coil when it’s not working (to be fair, most women wouldn’t want that!), or fill in charts etc. for the rhythm method. They don’t even ask if it’s what she’d like most of the time.

While I think there are men who would like the male pill would be as diligent about it as most women who take it are, just as there are men who will get vasectomies and men who are conscientious about checking with their partners and about using condoms, I don’t think there are many. There have been attempts to develop a male pill, but testing was halted as too dangerous. I heard a lot more disappointment from women than from men.

I find it staggering the number of posters who seem to support the idea of women having an abortion against their will.

Before conception, of course both parties have an equal responsibility for contraception. After conception there is no equality, there CAN’T be, because at that point we are talking exclusively about women’s bodies.

I hope that some of these posters are MRAs who have been summoned to the thread. But otherwise it’s pretty worrying to see the level of misogyny dressing itself up as equality.

Not all babies are matched and raised for by nice loving families.....

In both situations a parent decides they aren't able to /interested in raising a child and so relinquish the rights and responsibilities of parenting.