To not pay for an unwanted child?

I don't understand the voting so might have voted wrongly but when you have sex you take the risk that a baby will be conceived. That's just a fact.

You were responsible for creating it, you should be responsible for caring for it. You don't get to opt out because you don't want to deal with the consequences of your actions.

For anyone asking what if the "pwoor man was tricked by the mean baby woman", grow up. You can't rely on a strangers word that they are on the pill/infertile etc.

It's up to both people to take steps to stop conception, not just the woman. I'm so fed up of women being expected to be the person to deal with contraception.

Also, let's be honest, child matainance is pennies. If a man is even going down this road, he's unlikely to be active dad so the main impact to him will be him paying a pittance every month and doing very little else won't have much if an impact on HIS life.

Im trying to figure out what you’re getting at here. Do you think mothers on the whole get too much child maintenance from fathers? And why PAYE? How would self employed people who don’t use PAYE contribute? 🧐

Men already do have an opt out clause if it's a one night stand. Anyone stupid enough not to use condoms risks more than just pregnancy.

Unfortunately, it is on the woman to insist upon using condoms as she will be the one left, literally, holding the baby. In the rare event of burst condom, failed morning after pill, and on the few fertile days in the month that's a horrifically unlucky situation.

People lie. Why would you ever trust a ONS to have even given you his real name? Even if they did, if all you know is their name you're not getting CMS so therefore man has opted out of paying for any resulting child.

CMS can't find someone without personal information to track them down.

If you roll the dice the game. Almost all heterosexual sex between fertile couples has a chance of creating a pregnancy.

Don’t do the deed if you don’t want the responsibility of a child. Or at least put something on the end of it to reduce the risk. 🍆A lot of men seem to think the responsibility of contraception falls on women.

All actions have consequences. Contraception isn't 100% safe. The only way to be 100% safe is to not have sex. Every time a couple have sex, even if contraception is used, there's always a chance of pregnancy, regardless of how slim it may be. Therefore, every man should know when he has sex, that there's always a potential for that action to result in a pregnancy. If you're adult enough for sex, then you're adult enough to take the responsibilities that having sex can bring.

I wouldn't waste head space feeling sorry for men in this situation. When it comes to sex, reproduction and parenthood, women overwhelmingly have far more shit to deal with then men do. Id say handing over money every month is getting off lightly in comparison.

I disagree that how the child was conceived doesn't matter. I don't think fathering a child should absolutely always result in supporting the child, just as I don't think it automatically means the father should have rights to the child.

I think it's ridiculous in some parts of the US we have women convicted of sexually abusing boys and those boys are still liable for child support (I've not yet heard of UK cases and the US cases I'm thinking of specifically involve boys), just as I think it is ridiculous if a girl or woman continues with a pregnancy after a rape that the father could try to claim parental rights to the child. I think if a child is conceived through sexual violence, especially if it's proven in court, that the normal rules should not apply.

Personally, I think the choice to continue a pregnancy to term should involve considering the responsibility to care for the child on one's own. No child support law is going to make any difference if the other parent dies or disappears overseas, so whether it's a one night stand or a long standing marriage, it's something either parent should equally consider.

Know two men who had child from one night stand. Both co parent well probably better than most as both parents in each case were clear they didn't want a romantic relationship with each other.

A woman choosing whether to undergo a medical procedure which can often leave her with psychological scars if it wasn't truly her choice, or to go through a potentially life threatening 9 month process which will change her body and brain irrevocably is not even comparable to a man's role, so until men's bodies bear the same responsibility for bringing children into the world, they don't get the same rights.

No you can't opt out of your own child's life just because they weren't expected. Where would that end?

No

This is one of those subjects that I can’t really believe grown adults debate with gusto. It reminds me of gcse debate in 1995, where people say dumb things that no one who isn’t 15 would think reasonable or smart

Child's needs need to be prioritised once they're here.

Both parents are responsible for their presence, end of, so both parents need to be legally obligated to support the child.

Men don’t get pregnant. It’s not their bodies. HTH.

BTW abortion is healthcare not a perk.

If a man doesn’t want to have a child he doesn’t have intercourse or he makes sure he’s wearing good strong protection. He also knows for certain that the person he’s having sex with is using good, reliable, safe, contraception. In short, he needs to be discerning and careful. His choices on whether to have a child or not end at the moment of conception. The woman is taking the risk with pregnancy and raising the child. A man has made his choice - now it’s her turn to make her choice.

But, but.. men! They’re the most important! Even when contraception has failed it’s the woman bearing the physically and financial burden because we can’t inconvenience the menz.

With this logic you'd have to prohibit abortions though, surely?

As a poster mentioned above, your colleague's opinion is a misunderstanding of what child support it - it's for the child, not for the mother. Regardless of how the child came into being and whether either party wanted it, the child needs to eat and should therefore be supported by both their parents

Question: how would that work in practice?

A man doesn’t want a baby - does he lodge an application with the court?
How does he then prove he didn’t want the baby all along? Or that contraception was lied about? How does he prove he’s not a liar? Who pays for all this? The taxpayer?

Also what about if he’s in a relationship or marriage then changes his mind? Is that ok?

And what will you do about all the children plunged into poverty due to this law? Or all the broken hearts of children who find out they are SO unwanted their dad emancipated himself from them while they were still a foetus.

What a shame when men’s wallets matter more than a child’s wellbeing.

Here’s another suggestion: men could just face up to their actions and responsibilities?

And did you know £4billion is owed by men to their children? We already live in a world where men shirk their emotional and financial responsibilities. Why are to that figure?

Sounds like your colleagues need a reality check and to stop listening to the Tate brothers

Abortion is not a form of contraception and men have no right to treat it as such. If you make a baby, you should take responsibility for supporting the child.

Even if he doesn’t pay any maintenance or have any contact, he still has an unwanted child in the world.

A girl I went to school with got herself in this situation. Had a one night stand, got pregnant (she says the condom failed AND she was on the pill, but seriously?). The guy flatly refused to go along with it, didn’t want to be a dad (was 19) and has never acknowledged the child. The child is now 13, and she still sprays vitriol all over social media about him being a shit absent father/sperm donor/pathetic excuse of a man, but she chose this, and he didn’t? She repeatedly said they used 2 forms of birth control, yet still expected him to step up for a child she says he actively tried to protect against. It’s a hard one, but it’s always been in my mind that she wanted to get pregnant and basically went looking for it to piss off her parents. Tricky!

But this argument is focusing purely on the adults involved and the choices they made and whether they are being treated fairly. The child is the innocent party and this argument totally ignores their needs.