Army recruitment of unemployed youth

Its simple really If she got what she suggested there would be even less women working in social care because they would be in the Army

@JenniferBoothsorry I’m not sure I get the link between my mums comment and unpaid women's work and care?

Suggesting the military to unemployed youth isn't a bad idea. It used to be promoted in schools a lot but I feel like that has tailed off over the last few decades as the army has shrunk. Now we are looking at big increases, pointing out where unemployed youth might find a decent career that also aligns with other government strategies makes sense.

I think conscription is a very different decision. A hugely expensive one and one that would be unpopular. But if things keep going and we need to consider being capable of fighting a war against Russia, we may need peace time conscription to make sure people have the skills to rapidly deploy in the future. Those are probably conversations that are being had in the government (I hope those conversations are being had - these are "interesting" times and we need government to have thought about possibilities).

Someone who does not want to work in a care home should not be there.

Ed Davey was on This Morning recently with a woman whose mum was abused in a care home.
They had a debate about what could be done to stop this kind of abuse.
But the one thing that wasnt brought up is the one thing no Govenment will ever do including the Lib Dems if they ever got in.
And that is to stop care work being advertised through Job Centres or stop ppl being threatened with UC sanctions if they dont take a care position. Stopping Job Centres doing this will stop someone possibly taking their resentment out on the clients (not saying everyone forced by sanction would do this) just saying its a risk. Why is it ok for elderly people to be collateral damage to get unemployment figures down. They would never take the same risks with children by forcing the claimant to be a child minder or be sanctioned.
I realise this is not what you were talking about but it all ties into the fact that the job is not valued.

My uncle was that unemployed youth. Children, living with partner in b&b where they had one room to sleep in and has to be out of it 8am to 8pm. It was traumatic for all of them.

He joined the army. It certainly saved his relationship and possibly lives as they were all extremely depressed.
He left the army 20 years later and then took gcses (he'd not bothered sitting his cses) and worked until he retired.

For some it would be life changing in a good way.

I also think part of the issue is the type of people suitable for certain job roles within the military.
My job was a combat role, but also required a bit of mental gymnastics. I was perfectly suited for it. But I’ll openly admit that I really did struggle emotionally with some of the moral and ethical challenges my job presented - the actual making of those decisions was well above my pay grade, but I’d be part of the team executing the result of those decisions.
And there’s no nice way to say this, so I’ll try and say it in the least derogatory way possible: the army does benefit from people who don’t have the most advanced emotional intelligence to fill infantry roles. The type of people they can tell to do something and they won’t have an inner fight with any moral scruples - they’ll just do it.
That’s actually part of the recruitment process for US Navy SEALS - they’d probably be diagnosed as clinical sociopaths in the civilian world. They want a certain type of person to be nothing more than a killing machine who can get the job done time and time again without question. And those people usually aren’t the most academically inclined.
Am I comfortable with that? No. Not by a long shot.
But having been in combat situations, I can also see why that type of recruitment is necessary.

No, he didn't see a specialist. There wasn't anything in his medical record to indicate it was more serious than just a diagnosis of hayfever or a basic antihistamine.
We consulted with the GP practice manager and got the GP to write a letter (which I paid for) to support his application and reiterate what his notes said.

Does that include any carers she might need the majority of whom will be female.
Then there are the women doing unpaid care
Womens unpaid labour is only noticed when its not done

It would be interesting to know why people do choose to join.

a friends husband was basically given the choice of young offenders or join the navy. He code the Navy and it has been the making of him in many ways. He learned a highly specialised and well remunerated skill (clearance diver) and a great pension from 40. It gave him structure, discipline.

my oldest wants to join the army. We told him we’ll support it as long as he does a degree first to give him some options, and just to grow up a bit. He is attracted by the physicality of it (he’s very into sports and fitness), the opportunities for training and fast promotion. He’s a people person, the idea of communal living does not phase him, and he’s very good at motivating people, He has no interest in working a desk job, ever.

but he’s not particularly patriotic. In fact, he’s never lived in the UK (he was born in NZ and we live in Europe).

how important is patriotism in this decision? From what I’ve read, soldiers die for their mates - and you’d really want your mates to be similarly committed to you.

Because young healthy men have always been what the forces need. Not clapped out 40 something perimenopausal women or elderly men. Although probably because we'd tell the PTIs to fuck off rather than do as we're told....

Is it predatory if they give young people who may otherwise be homeless a decent living, a skill and a roof over their heads? They target where they get highest success rates as any organisation should and would. They turn people’s lives around. Thats a good thing.

If you look at how Germany managed it in the last few decades (ending it in 2011), it allowed for jobs like being a hospital porter in your local hospital or working in a care home. It was about national service not military conscription to the front line.

My DH was a private, served in NI and Iraq. He was the lowest rank you could get and wanted to stay that way because he loved it. But he was one of the few in his camp who hadn’t either grown up in poverty or in foster care.

We live in a very uncertain world I don’t think it’s a bad thing if our armed forces are built up. We need to be able to defend our way of life and that requires armed forces. I think collectively the country needs to get over the “cannon fodder” attitude and be grateful to those who are willing to serve

The issue I have is that the army specifically target vulnerable, isolated, disillusioned young people. My question is why they are the main subset of young people being targeted by recruitment. It feels almost predatory.

The Forces have historically been a way up for young men (and now young women) from impoverished or difficult backgrounds. My great-grandfather (from one line) and grandfather (from another) both benefitted massively.

It took them both from lives of absolutely grinding poverty and gave them opportunities that they would never otherwise have had.

Did he see a specialist or something? Problems managing the allergies with antihistamines? Because a basic hayfever tablet wouldn't be a problem. Did you get to check what's on his medical notes? It's possible there was something there that undermined it beyond a low level allergy which suggested it could be life threatening, which would absolutely be a bar.

My elderly 80+ mum said all of today’s issues are due to a lack of national service. She also thinks women should do it too. I laughed, but I’m beginning to think she’s got a point.

Also the nail biting over “forcing” re conscription doesn’t work like that in reality. I know people in Israel, where conscription is mandatory for all young people until at least 18 - 20. They WANT to join the Army, they look forward to it, and it’s not all frontline roles, some people are yoga teachers in the Army. The thought of it being “forced” is laughable to Israelis - and they have one of the strongest most efficient armies in the world as a result, high resilience in young people and have very low unemployment rates

I think this is ok if there are peacekeeping/logistics roles for pacifists who are not comfortable with anything combat related.

For some young people it’s an excellent idea, they have the opportunity to learn skills, a trade and get some work under their belt from which they can then leapfrog into the wider world of work. Many are in the armed forces for a few years before moving on.

it’s not right for all but it’s certainly something that those struggling to get a job can consider

No, he was never given an inhaler.

Who’s talking about force? This is about recruitment. It’s like saying putting a job advert on LinkedIn is forcing people.

My dad served for 18 years and im very proud of him and wanted to join up myself but my dad said no. It had nothing to with me being female but everything to do with how things had changed and he didn't want that life for me. He discouraged a few family members from signing up and those that ignored and did openly say they wished they hadn't.
My dad's marriage fell apart after leaving, he struggled to hold down a job and ended up working as a driver for the UN for a few years which meant he was away for long periods.
I think he has PTSD if I'm honest but support at that time didn't exist and now he'd never get help. Growing up life seemed exciting but now I understand why my parents are the way they are.
Yes he left with skills and has a good paying job but it's come at a much higher cost.