Army recruitment of unemployed youth

We need a military and need more recruitment, unfortunately there's been a lot of bad press in recent weeks which had really highlighted the need for immense changes to be made . I have started a petition to address these on change.org. I served for 15 years and 3 decades on the sexual harassment and assualts still go on I definitely would not want my kids joining up and I say that as someone who is proud to be a veteran because it was extremely difficult to serve at times .

Another fair example of that from recent years is fighter pilots.
Their ptsd frequently manifests as “men without faces” - because they see pixelated footage of a body exploding into a million pieces. They may be a massive distance away from the actual event, but they have a way clearer digital view of what’s just happened than I ever had.

Most definitely.

My DH is currently serving in a different branch than I was, in a very different job role. When he deploys, he’s not going to be in the immediate thick of it like my job required - his job is a lot more mental gymnastics than a show of force like mine was. So he’s not going to find himself in a hail of bullets on a foot patrol, but frequently finds himself locked in a tiny room with some of the worst examples of humanity ever to exist.
Same with the super-smart computer geniuses the military like to employ for relevant roles.
It’s swings and roundabouts when it comes to how physically close people get to traumatic scenes. But I’d argue that those computer nerds watching things play out on high definition screens are exposed to hideous things that mess with your head on a way more regular basis than those of us actually out on the ground.

I actually thought it was a good idea. I would have made it from 16 not 18 but in theory its. Great idea. Opens up kids eyes to the world and they give sow seeds thing to society

My son went into the Royal Engineers as soon as he could. Like me, he had always been very sporty. After basic training, he went to Afghan 1. His peacetime role was as a Physical Training Instructor, and he loved it.
During his active service, communications between us were patchy. He came home on leave, and I hardly recognised him. A thin man, with perpetually hunted look on his face and what turned out to be chronic PTSD. He returned to where we had lived when he was a child, and took on lorry driving jobs. Sometimes, he would phone me and tell me he was on the top of a very tall building, and was thinking of jumping off. I managed to talk him down each time. He joined a church group, met the daughter of a high flying American Navy officer, married her, has three teenage children and has lived happily ever since.

Some of my family are in the armed forces and they get treated very well. I wish I’d chosen it as a career.

My father was a driver in a transport unit from 1940 - 46

He had a normal 'work day' as you would in a haulage company.

His view on Conscription was that there was an awful lot of 'skiving' and 'make work' going on in the Forces and what concerned him apart from any other issues was that young people would spend the first two years of their employment learning bad habits

Rather than some leaving school with no qualifications or job, send them into 2 years of compulsory national service - works well in other countries. They would learn some skills and discipline.

This comment is a bit of a kick in the teeth to the many men and women doing all sorts of jobs - medics, drivers, logistics, engineers, electricians, mechanics, security... etc etc etc on and on and on

I assume it's part of ongoing recruitment campaigns and why not? It's a steady career with plenty of benefits for the right person.

Agree
However I was referring to the notion by another that deployment never happens for some when in fact it does for all.

They do @FreedomandPeace but to be realistic, some roles are vanishingly less likely to be in harms way than others. Some roles end up being the true front line, others remain far far behind the lines in very different living conditions.

DH likes to take the mick about the horrors of finding a lack of bacon being served at breakfast on a naval ship one morning - when talking to a good friend who served in the Army in Afghanistan and Iraq and lived in a very hot and dusty ditch for weeks at a time.

Agree
Its still deployment and I wasn’t suggesting that you are only deployed in areas you are trained in.
A pp on here was suggesting there were roles within the armed forces that meant you stayed permanently in the UK and never have to leave your desk.
Thats simply not what happens, everyone signs up to deployment as part of the contract ( except if there are extreme welfare issues )

@Lavender14 - comparing forces recruitment to sex work & consent is a bit far fetched considering that there is actually a rigorous selecion process involved.

To me it's a government organisation that is actively looking at deprived areas, offering young people an alternative to a lifetime of low paid casual jobs or crime, drugs and sex work. This can only be a good thing.

If you think about it, how many people are actually in jobs they really want to do?
How many people go to university (and acquire a huge amount of debt) and then decide that the subject matter isn't for them? There's also some element predatory behaviour from universities and schools but that's OK, because it's university/ higher education.

Back to the Forces recruitment. Some of these young people might have no GCSE or other formal qualifications, again something that will make it nearly impossible to get a well paid job.

The Forces will give them their GCSE's, often leading to skills and training that is also valid in a civil life. There is a duty of care for therecuit, if someone joins at 16 there'll be several steps before they commit at 18. All the while getting paid! In the meantime, the university student will accumelate an average amount of 50k debt...

Here we go again! More rhetoric from liz kendal.too far right. My DS school had a recruitment drive,and the teachers complained and it was removed . The hipoiscrosy of this government sticks in the throat. How many young people are killed, injured or get PTSD?8

Because many of the unemployed young people are also vulnerable and brain development relating to consequences and decision making isn't even fully formed. My issue personally, is when people who are vulnerable through life experiences/ poverty/ trauma are particularly targeted.

I don’t understand why unemployed young people is such a problem but unemployed adults in their 30s and beyond is seen as acceptable, even if they’ve barely ever worked.

it has ever so been thus, with our disaffected youth.

Just not for the children of the "elite" 🤮

If you were in the forces would you want your life depending on a reluctant conscript having done their job correctly?

I get what you are saying…..and you’re partially right.
But as someone who has seen active service, I can tell you categorically that you go where they need you.
My job was a combat role, not infantry, but in a role that directly supports them.
During my first deployment, I did the job I was trained for a total of one time.
Instead, I spent the vast majority of my 6ish months being attached to an infantry battalion, and was used as a female searcher. Afghan women will not allow men near them, let alone to conduct searches of them or their children….so female soldiers were a precious commodity for that purpose. So I’d go out on foot patrols with the guys just in case they needed me to make sure there wasn’t an IED strapped to the chest of a terrified woman or her kid.
I also spent a lot of time working with the medical units for the same reason - a lot of the local women would rather be treated by a woman with basic medical knowledge than a male doctor where possible. So I’d be patching up women and kids for weeks on end. Not the job I was ever supposed to be doing, but needs must 🤷🏻‍♀️ and that actually ended up being way more emotionally traumatic for me than my actual combat role ever was.

Everyone has to do deployments it is part of all contracts ( unless you have personal extreme welfare reasons ).
These are now more often 3 months but were and can be 6 months.

A deployment does not necessarily mean front line but does field work. You go wherever you are sent

There are many other options that our government could be resourcing to deal with that though. The army isn't the solution! Robust community and statutory services are the solution we should be promoting. It's the chronic and intentional underfunding of those services that is creating the issue of disillusioned, isolated and vulnerable young men in the first place!

"What would the alternative be?"

That is exactly my issue though - are people enlisting because they genuinely want to enlist or are they enlisting because they don't feel they have any other viable choices so it's the lesser evil. I understand many soldiers won't see live action, but many do. Mental health issues is a huge concern. To me (its an extreme analogy) its similar to sex work and consent. If someone has gone into sex work because they are homeless/ have no support network/ are in poverty/ have experienced trauma would we really call that full consent and empowered sex work or is someone doing that as the only way they can see to survive in a shit situation? To me it's only surface level consent and empowerment and I would still see that as exploitation. For me, the army targeting vulnerable young people who are at risk of or who have experienced these things is onto that vein. And I wouldn't see it as any other job given that there is real risk of harm or loss of life attached.

@APATEKPHILLIPEWATCH "and actually speaking as someone who experienced childhood trauma, it doesn’t help having a mundane calm life. Sometimes a bit of conflict is what’s needed to deal with trauma."

Not to minimise your experiences at all (especially as everyone processes differently) but as someone who also has experienced childhood trauma and now works with trauma survivors, I actually really disagree with you that conflict is helpful in dealing with trauma. Often people who have experienced trauma end up seeking out adrenaline fuelled situations and many go into careers that expose them to more trauma like emergency services for example. It took me a long time and periods of complete burnout to recognise that I've done the same and if I'm not very careful with my awareness of what draws me to my job and how I manage that effectively - I am at more risk of compounding my trauma through exposure to further trauma over the years. This is more heightened for those of us who have prior experience of trauma than those who have secure upbringings and who haven't experienced the same trauma. The issue with the mundane calm life you talk about (no judgement I totally recognise this in myself too!) is a natural dispensation for adrenaline seeking because that's what our systems are used to. But this can easily compromise our resilience and wellbeing unless we have robust support networks in place. Which do not exist in the army at present which is why the suicide rate is very high.

They don't only target the underprivileged- it's just the rest go to uni, and do OTC and then apply for Sandhurst, and those candidates will have more options.

I recently did mock interviews at a local school, and I was a bit surprised at how many were considering the army. There seems to be a strong CCF there. Mind you, I did suggest to one that having a backup plan is always a good idea, because I thought if she does only get her predicted 3s and 4s, she won't be going to 6th form as she wants - and she seemed quite happy that there would always be a place for her in the army if she didn't do well enough.

In a previous job, I had German colleagues who had done Zivildienst as a hospital porter, and one who had done Militärdienst in the Luftwaffe - during 1989. It was certainly interesting to hear him talking about the Berlin Wall coming down, because they were on high alert and facing the prospect of civil war, because to start with, they didn't know how it would turn out. Germany ended national service mostly because of the cost of it, I think.

I come from a country where military service of 1 year was a fact for men of my age. It was an amazing equalizer and they made friends for life. They all learnt skills & standards that serve them for life.

If you’re amazing at some sports also great. BIL was the on world parachute champion team. Can’t imagine the cost of 2k jumps a year privately.

It’s expensive to run a massive bureaucracy like an army though. I’d argue better than unemployment for mental health than gaming and staying at your parents for decades. Obviously not a great job in war time!

It is essential that new entrants to the Armed Forces are medically fit to meet the various challenges of Service life and the roles in which they will be expected to deploy. Candidates with mild or moderate allergies are currently able to join the Armed Forces providing they meet certain criteria.22 Oct 2024

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk
Armed Forces: Allergies - Written questions, answers and statements

Childhood hay-fever is no longer a barrier.