DS works on a 15 hour min contract at Coffee shop- how available does he need to be every weekend ?

Probation means diddly squat. He has no “protection” for 2 years (baring actual discrimination).

Yes, he should have told them he had a pre booked holiday.

He’s not zero hours

If he can’t get it off and he hands his notice in they may be able to magically grant him the time off. The hiring process is expensive and time consuming and no one likes it.

If he’s remotely competent they’ll likely want to keep him.

When I was younger I worked in a chain pub. I picked up as many shifts as I could and was reliable. In the end I handed my notice in because they wouldn’t give me a week off months after I had requested it because there was a “bank holiday” that week. There wasn’t a bank holiday that week but they just didn’t want me to not be working that week.

They magically approved my request when they realised I was serious about leaving.

Why are you assuming he asked his mother to post on Mumsnet?

When I used to work in HR for a retailer we were advised by legal not to expect full flexibility on pt contracts if someone had other commitments such as study, caring etc. It wasn't deemed a reasonable employer expectation. Problem is, before 2 years there's not really anywhere you can go if you get sacked by an unscrupulous employer unless there's a clear discrimination angle, so the employer holds all the cards especially in a tough market

For God's sake people it's just a chat forum!!! Some people taking this waaaay too seriously.

Radical candour is saying what you think, but also giving a damn about the person you are saying it to. Maybe take another look into it.

Where is the conjecture?

Zero hour contract works both ways. He just has to tell them he cannot do that weekend

It gives you no more rights at all. Maybe psychologically the employer is more committed, but legally you have no more rights the day after passing probation to the day before

Zero hours contracts really seem to rely upon goodwill. I don't think it should be down to employees to cover shifts, that is what their (non-zero contract) managers get paid more money to do.

if my DC asked me about this I would be telling them:
-that whilst they should have told them when they started about needing the time off any decent employer would be understanding and try and help
-that they need to exhaust other options such as shift swap
-that there is no way they should miss a family wedding for a 15 hour zero contract job.

I would also advise them to immediately start looking for another job/retraining and to tell their boss that they have tried to sort but unfortunately it’s not been possible and it they can’t accommodate then they will be leaving. I would do this giving the minimum amount of notice.

Teaching our young people to negotiate these situations is important, teaching them there are always other options is important. You are effectively ‘brain storming’ with them not wiping their bum as other posters have suggested.

The key is to have options, be constantly trying to improve and develop. The employer/employee relationship needs to change back to one where we worked together, zero hours makes it very one sided and employees aren’t valued. The weekend shift situation would be solved quickly by paying slightly more for weekend work because, despite what everyone says, weekends are precious.

It's a 15 hour flexible contract by the sounds of it. Flexibility works both ways and if they aren't preparing their rotas in good time, then they have to accept that people might make other plans.

I would tell them in writing asap (keep a record) that I was not available on those dates. It's not annual leave, they have the rest of the week they can rota him on. I would then keep a copy of the rota when it comes out, and if needed raise a grievance.
I would also look for another job.

Unfortunately the manager has offered a compromise, swap shifts. There’s still time to do this as he gets to know people better. If he can’t swap he’ll have to decide between the job and the wedding.

How far in advance do they do the rotas?

And he should have had some agreement on what days and hours he could do when he started the job but if he didn’t or said he was available any days then yes he should be accepting shifts any days and times

I don’t know the answers to this. But if my 21y graduate daughter asked for advice about the legalities of an employment situation, I would be more than happy to ask around my peers and others to see if they had advice.

People are so weird on MN about kids once they turn 18! Kids can be young adults and still turn to you for advice. I have zero issue with that if they are getting on with their lives independently otherwise.

I might ask my husband or friends for advice on a particular situation. And they might ask me. We are in our fifties. Is that allowed?!

5 weeks' notice is loads! If the issue is absolutely everyone else is already booked off then obviously the swap suggestion isn't going to work. Either the place is short staffed and could do with some more people on the books anyway, or the guy is lying

Bit depressed that a graduate can only get 15 hours in a coffee shop. Is this what the job market is like now?

It always amazes me on mymsnet how deferential people are to shit bosses in mun wage jobs. They aren't gods. If you cant fibd anyone to swap with (ask people hes on shift with surely) then just tell him you aren't going to be there, up to him what he does with that information. If he decides not to offer any more shifts ds can vote with his feet. I learned early on in my working life that you have to stand up for yourself. I started off very people pleasery but realised that just meant I got the shit jobs where more assertive types got the plum ones.

My DD worked for a large supermarket for a few months on leaving university. She had regular changes to her shifts. If you needed a shift change for e.g. a wedding the first thing you did was find a colleague to swap. You also flagged up any 'holiday' at interview. Unfortunately 'the world of work' doesn't work around you. Ever thought he might actually not want to go to the wedding?

This is the key…he should have told them at that point he had pre-booked holiday. As he didn’t, normal rules apply and unfortunately if others have already booked it he won’t be able to have it

To be fair, this is an important lesson for the big real world. He's requested holidays but left it a bit late and people are already booked. What would you do as an adult human in your proper job if this had happened to you? You presumably wouldn't just go awol for a week off as it would affect your job prospects. He needs to find colleagues that will swap with him and he works during the week or not go. That's really his only option unless he hands his notice in to leave now.

It will help if he can cover a few people first when they need swaps, or help the boss out a few times. Then if he can't find a swap talk to the boss the week before by which time he will hopefully be friendly with them all.

I get that employers need to have cover and that weekends are more difficult for this, however workers shouldn’t be beholden to an employer. A month’s notice seems reasonable. He may get less hours and the danger is that he gets no hours in the future if his employer wants to go that way, but for a booked family wedding I would risk that.

these coffee shops are notoriously bad at planning, changing schedules etc. Really poor. My DD had a 24 hour a week contract with Costa, she ended up not being able to make any plans as the rota was often changed at the last minute. She left as she effectively had to be available all the time (7days a week), and they got stroppy if she said she couldn’t. It’s no wonder there is a continual stream of people leaving and then having to retrain staff. She had to be really flexible for them and they were not at all flexible to her. Very demoralising.