Teachers who have watched 'Adolescence'- what are your thoughts?

In relation to children thinking critically, you get a child of 14 who has benefitted from a good education, has a pretty good knowledge of science, history, politics, world affairs, current affairs, and maths and language at the right level, they are going to be far better equipped to question and evaluation information than a 14 year old who, say, is not even aware of who the PM is (referring back to one of your posts). There is a huge gap between 14 year olds who have been given resources and skills and interesting books on wide ranging subjects with those who have not. In relation to toxic masculinity again children who have been taught emotional intelligence and, dare I say it, morality and empathy, are less likely to be manipulated.

Though children of this age are heavily influenced by peers, as others have said, which is why conversations to keep them on track in terms of behaviour towards others and making good choices etc need to be an ongoing frequent thing, to counter balance the less good influences which are at the moment so prevalent on a daily basis.

I think research indicates that children from 5 on can understand that others have different opinions from 12-13 children should be able to start questioning and evaluating ie being able to think critically?

In relation to conspiracy theories leading to "anti-democracy", I am still not sure that is all quite as clear as it could be!

As i have indicated in previous posts, child development research provides a lot of information about how to deal with behaviour effectively.

But see my post saying that neither punishment nor being permissive will work, and switching immediately to "no punishment" without strategies for dealing with interim problems is not effective either. Both policy and training should be changed to reflect child development research from the sound of it.

Fundamentally, most of the children being disruptive are being disruptive because they are not coping. A lot of petty punishments will be making the situation worse. Behaviour is communication in children.

zero effect not affect I meant!

Can't remember the exact terms used, @opendoorsopening: it was something like "conspiracy theories to sow confusion and mistrust of democracy and democratic processes".

You're absolutely right that we need to be teaching children a lot more critical thinking skills. Granted, children's brains are not properly equipped for it but we can certainly provide them with skills to evaluate context and analyse facts.

There are some brilliant links on this page: https://www.et-foundation.co.uk/professional-development/safeguarding-prevent/legislation-guidance-resources/further-prevent-british-values-resources/

I just had a look at some PREVENT info online and thought I'd link this in case anyone finds it useful. It is interesting to see schools' obligations.

homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2024/12/05/prevent-and-channel-factsheet-2024/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Prevent%20programme,people%20more%20susceptible%20to%20radicalisation.

I posted upthread about schools giving children more talks and I am now wondering if it would be useful if PREVENT officers could give talks in schools to encourage critical thinking by the children - so that those who use the internet a lot unsupervised will at least have questions at the back of their minds.

I asked about funding (and your answer made perfect sense) because the grooming process sounds sophisticated, and we know that some activist groups are well funded though it isn't always very transparent. I think that international law around funding and transparency needs to be looked at.

I am not sure what "anti-democratic disinformation" means or what terrorism groups it is linked with though and I couldn't find anything online. Schools are required to be neutral when teaching about political concepts. I am probably not grasping the point.

Not sure how people would feel about this but perhaps a big help to the behaviour issue may be full CCTV in classrooms that could be referenced when sanctioning bad behaviour?

Did both mothers agree with your truth, and apologise for calling you a bully?

Incidentally do you think that the research which indicates that punishments (including sanctions and demerits) are counterproductive at best and potentially harmful is a load of baloney?

Trad husband's?? I think you'll find it's "trad wives" yeah the lady is expected to be respectable, have ten children etc but the man is allowed to play video games all day and who needs to breadwin when you can just claim welfare or make one exception for the wife's tradness you're allowed to work to fund my video game collection and marijuana

It is absolutely terrifying to wonder what the country will look like in 10-15 years when this toxic rot has well and truly sank its teeth into society. Too many of the youth of today are like plants in a dark room, void of anything natural or goodness, desperately seeking some light whenever they can find it.

Hopefully AI comes and saves the day in some bizarre dystopian black mirror way because otherwise with the shit show of world leaders and super wealthy meddlers we have now, it’s going to just get worse.

Good questions,@opendoorsopening. I don't know and suspect the answer varies. Influencers like Andrew Tate obviously want to make money and build power by increasing their following, but there are organisations and disorganised communities as well. Even though their ideologies vary wildly from extreme libertarianism to trad husbands and even intentional celibacy, they overlap more than they differ. They're all alt-right and hate women.

This means you've got millions of zealous misogynists pushing the same messages to boys and young men, and many of them follow several influencers/groups so an interested kid can gain rapid exposure to a smorgasbord of violent, misogynistic 'men's rights' preachers. Their recruitment methods are the same ones other violent groups employ. It's like a gigantic, messy cult.

As far as I'm aware, PREVENT treats misogyny as one of the core alt-right values alongside racism, antisemitism, anti-Muslim hatred, homophobia, xenophobia and anti-democratic disinformation. It's one of the gateways to what they classify as terrorism.

Don't know any more than that!

I think some people confuse "punishment doesn't work" with "permissive parenting" - they are not the same and neither works. What works (according to 50 years of research..!!) is high expectations of children - not permissive at all - but with high levels of support - so that means trying to understand them, motivate them, help them deal with problems...but also have high expectations - so requiring a high standard of behaviour and for them to concentrate in class or on homework and mess around in the playground. Most children want to learn and want to behave well - so it is a question of tapping into this and getting them to want to cooperate and help them to do so. A lot of bad behaviour is stemming from fear and from a feeling of helplessness around school work - far too many just cannot do the work and so choose messing around and then get aggressive when challenged. They can't do the work because they haven't been taught the skills. So we need to teach them the skills and give them motivation.

But it isn't a question of saying "ok, from now on no punishment" as they seem to have done in Scotland. It is a question of better awareness of research and reframing how things should be, but then looking at all the problem spots from birth to leaving school, both about how we "train" parents and train teachers.

And where kids have been failed and are now violent, for example, it isn't a question of just "not punishing" it is a question of working out an effective way of helping the children change for their benefit and the whole of society's benefit while also protecting other children and teachers.

@GarlicStyle Thank you for posting all this, it was really helpful. I am not sure whether this was dealt with later in the thread, or in a link (which I haven't read yet) but when you say "radical influencers target users of online game content, fitness training, military interests, sport content etc, and draw them into conversations where they feel understood and 'validated'. From there they are led towards increasingly extreme discussions where negative feedback is immediately removed, which normalises the extremist ideology and creates a feeling of community" who are these radical influencers, who funds them? How many are there? Are they themselves part of some organised group? So, for example, there has been a lot of investigation into organised extreme nationalism grooming, across borders - are the radical influencers a similar set up?

I find the surprise of some people at the behaviour in this school really quite funny, but not unexpected.

I moved a child from state secondary (‘outstanding’, behaviour exactly as shown here they tell me) to private school due to endless physical attacks (we’re Scottish and here schools are powerless to stop this). The amount of people on private school threads who say ‘oh we could afford private but we’d never do it. The girls all have eating disorders in private schools and the boys are all on drugs and we disagree with it morally due to social cohesion etc etc’. You just know it’s THESE people who are shocked at this program despite this showing exactly how bad many, many state secondary’s are. As the police commented, it doesn’t look like anyone is getting an education at all.

Do these ‘could afford but would never send private’ people live in a total middle class grammar bubble? Because this portrayal was EXACTLY the reason we moved our child to private, where they are being taught for the entire lesson and are not getting beaten up at all. Seems a small price to pay. And no they don’t have eating disorders of do drugs either. It’s easy to talk ‘morals’ and ‘social cohesion’ from an impeccable state school, but some of us aren’t as privileged and have to make do with a more realistic state offering or the option of forking out for an education.

My son is 15 and didn’t have a clue what all the emojis mentioned in the programme were about. He has heard of Andrew Tate but thinks he’s a complete nutcase.
We are quite rural so he is never walking the streets at night with groups of his friends. I do think a lot of children get into trouble when they’re out and about with their ‘mates’. I didn’t grow up going out like that and my children won’t be doing it either.
His school are incredibly strict with mobile phone use and if any pupil so much as produces it from their blazer pocket - it’s confiscated on the spot. Parents have to collect it at the end of the school day.

I can’t make my mind up about the show. I found the school scenes quite upsetting. The complete lack of respect for the teachers was shocking. I couldn’t send my child to a school like that. I’d sign them up to Interhigh if that was my only option.

You get what you accept.

Kids push boundaries and need discipline and consequences for bad behaviour. When they don't either they rule the roost and get more anti-social.

This is the legacy of permissive parenting and soft schools.

Freudian slip!

My friend teaches in a large secondary school in a very socio-economically deprived area and behaviour is off the scale. They have recently had conversations in meetings about whether they need to invest in some sort of PPE/body armour due to so many staff getting bitten or spat at. I can imagine some days they might feel more like soldiers than teachers and TA's to be fair.

I work in schools from time to time (not a teacher) and I get to go to many, in many different areas. Most schools are not like the one in adolescence, but some are and some are even worse in my experience. I have worked in schools where no learning happens at all because the whole school day is taken up with behaviour management and they really are like a holding pen. Pupils who would do well and behave, are lost in a class of disruption, and everyone leaves those schools with no qualifications and a sense of no hope. One particular school I worked in, was so bad that it was difficult to even get through the door. Pupils fighting, swearing, violence, running away, attacking teachers..there was a constant police presence and they had a huge team of behaviour/pastoral staff but it made no difference. Parents didn’t care and staff had given up. Really sad for pupils who wanted to learn and had no option to move.

I do agree slightly with the point a pp made about some rules being for the sake of it and quite pointless, causing a disconnect between pupils, parents and staff. At my child’s school, which is very good, every day head of years go round each class doing uniform checks and equipment checks, making every pupil empty pencil cases. If someone forgets a ruler, it’s an hour detention after school. My own child was wearing plain black boots to school when it snowed, she was told that the next day she must wear the correct shoes. That would be fine, but the rules mean that the options are black boys full shoes or those little dolly shoe things. She walks an hour to school every day. In the end she continued wearing boots and no one mentioned it again. I think I would have contacted the school in that situation. Teachers might then see me as one of those parents.
Luckily my own dc have never had a negative point or detention and we are told they are always polite and well behaved. I do teach them that we must respect teachers and follow the rules. I work on the basis that my children need resilience and the ability to thrive in the big wide world as adults and that includes not being entitled shits with no ability to respect others or adhere to rules.

I think most parents are like me in that way, but some, especially in the schools described above, are as you say. I don’t know why, I don’t know what flicked the switch but it does appear that they do not respect the rules themselves and think the schools are bullying their child who can do no wrong.
I remember having a conversation with a teacher in my child’s school about how we cannot always rescue them from anything they may find uncomfortable or upsetting and we must teach them their actions (or inaction) has consequences. One of my DDs is forgetful due to adhd, when she was little I would forever be back and forth to the school dropping off forgotten items, to prevent her any distress or missing out. As she grew up I stopped doing that, if she forgot something then she got detention and that was that. How else would she learn, I wasn’t up for packing her bags when she got to 20 !!

I am on lots of parent class message groups, it’s constant on there, parents complaining that their little angels are being singled out by teachers, with no acknowledgment that their behaviour caused the situation. It often becomes a witch hunt, people planning to complain on mass. One particular parent has 6 children who are apparently being bullied by teachers…who just don’t like them..but fails to acknowledge that having 6 badly behaved dc is not purely coincidence. She laughed when telling me her dc had physically hit the head of year.

Schools and teachers did not come off well in Adolescence at all.

I don't blame the teachers, they are clearly stressed, overworked, exasperated and not equipped to deal with children who behave so badly.

Even the fairly imposing male teacher has to shout at the child having already told him twice to stop oinking.

@howchildrenreallylearn@opendoorsopening Yes and I also think that unless these basic things like respect and care for other people are taught and practised at home then there's no chance in hell that teachers can turn it around. They just cannot contend with what they learn at home or the behaviours they see at home. Surely the main aim as a parent is that your kids don't turn out to be dickheads? (And to know that they are loved of course).

I think you make a very good point.

Schools are just a microcosm of society but we love to blame the young for all of society’s ills when it is us elders who have brought them into this world and dumped all of our traumas, problems and issues on them 😜

@opendoorsopening I also agree when you say that there is a huge mismatch between how schools treat children and young people and how their parents are treating them today. This causes so much friction whereas in the past schools could treat kids how they liked and get away with it. I can remember the behaviour of the teachers at my schools in the 80s and 90s, they had no checks or balances on them and got away with some stuff that would make your eyes water today 😱

With the funding cuts to education it is only going to get worse