What is your household income, how much is benefits, and how are you coping?

Well of course, if you have a pot of money and spend it all then there won't be much left.

I'm struggling with your line of argument.

If I earn 90K and have no children and no mortgage, that number still sits at the same place on the chart of household income as someone who earns 90K and spends it all on housing and children.

I understand that having children and a large mortgage makes a difference to how far your 90K goes.

Don't keep telling me that OP has children and so therefore her 90K isn't a high household income. It might not be high enough for the things she wants to do, but compared to the income in the country it is higher than average.

I don’t know what the answer is. Not having kids? Leaving the country?

I'm encouraging my dc too definitely. The UK is fucked, all of the west will suffer due yo ageing populations but we are in a particular bad spot.

I don’t know what the answer is. Not having kids? Leaving the country?

The recommendation is that HR taxpayers move to one of the Scandi countries. You'll likely still pay lots of tax but you'll actually see the benefit of it by living in a society where you can access things that work properly. At the moment, you just pay loads of tax, get nothing back and nothing works properly because it's all underfunded.

£2643 benefits.

Low income high tax country…….

with little to show for the high tax

@JHound I know! but the poster I was responding to didn't understand why dc should be included in the comparison. I was trying to help her comprehend the difference housing & children make.

I don’t get how you can feel poor on 90k. We have a combined household income of approx £65k (self employment for me, and disability, so this varies), one child, 3 cats and a dog, mortgage in the south east and I feel we’re doing well for ourselves! I’d certainly like to be able to afford cool holidays, but we don’t struggle for necessities. I grew up in poverty so this feels like good money.

OP is supporting children.

Low income high tax country…….

@JHound use the IF calculator

Joint income of £149,000. No benefits

@1apenny2apenny falls on deaf ears.

Where did you get that figure from?

@rosemarble how is it high particularly when you add in housing and having dc?

@bluegoosie

Either fixed the housing market or raise the real wages.

They can't do either

OK, so how a household income of 90K low - say it's 2 full time wages, it's still above average, and certainly not low.
I think I must be missing something.

The poster you've quoted has a household income of £2k more than mine despite the fact that, judging by the net salaries, I think I earn twice as much. It's bonkers to me.

There’s lots of people putting their salaries and outgoings. The benefits threads normally attract lots of people saying they get PIP, DLA etc but there’s hardly any on here saying how much they get in benefits just posts telling people that earning £90k is loads and stop moaning. I’d be willing to bet those people are highly educated in demanding roles with 2 parents working and juggling family life. Why shouldn’t they earn well, after all they are the people paying all the tax.

Housing vs income increases has fucked young people.
And no wonder birth rates are falling faster than predicted.

But presumably she has less that £16k in savings and won't be putting anything in her pension, has an insecure home as she rents and won't have an asset to sell if she does need care and therefore will be stuck in whatever home the state pays for rather than being able to choose somewhere half decent.

I get it's hard, and I hate to say it but kids get more expensive when they hit the teenage years. Hobbies, driving lessons, Uni costs, ridiculous appetites all add up. We bring home about £130k and have 3 teenagers and whilst we have a lovely life we are not rolling in it. I was also brought up by a single parent in a council house though and compared to that i am very lucky that I have stability.

We get no help whatsoever (don't need any so thats fair) but I would far rather be in my position than your friends.

So the OP without dc (no idea why you want to compare to households without dc) is an income 90% higher than the rest of the population

Add the fact she is spending 2k a month on a mortgage (guessing) & this drops down to an income higher than only 75%

Add 2 dc & income drops to higher than only 53% of the population.

So if you need a 7 seater then your DH already had 3 or 4 children before you met? So he's supporting 4-5 kids on a mediocre salary in an expensive area.

Housing and child care costs in the UK take up a phenomenal amount of our incomes compared to our EU neighbours:

As of April 2024, the median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom were approximately £37,430

UK Childcare Costs:
The average weekly cost of a full-time nursery place for a child under two in Great Britain was £302.10 in 2024. Annually, this amounts to approximately £15,706.

UK Housing Costs:
The average UK house price was £290,000 in November 2024. Assuming a 25-year mortgage with a 10% deposit and an interest rate of 4% (more like 6% now but I'm counting all the people who have longer fixed rates), the monthly mortgage payment would be approximately £1,380, totaling £16,560 annually. This is similar to the mean rent for a two bed apartment in the UK (According to the HomeLet Rental Index, for February 2025 is £1,275.)

Combining these expenses, the total annual cost for childcare and housing is approximately £32,266. This represents about 86% of the single median annual earnings or 43% of a joint two earner household income. NB: this is pre-tax!!

Compare this with Germany:

In Germany, the average annual cost of childcare is approximately €2,028 per year, and housing costs are around €11,484, totaling €13,512. With an median average annual salary of €45,700, these expenses represent about 30% of the single median average income, and 15% of the median 2 earners household income

Look at these figures and tell me why we feel squeezed?

If just child care and housing are costing you 43% of your family's pre-tax income how does anyone have any money left at the end of the month to do anything?

Even if you take out the childcare: housing is still costing you a disproportionate amount of your pre-tax earnings

Side note: Taking a historical perspective in 1913 Round about a Pound a Week was published by Maud Pember Reeves. This study provides valuable insights into the financial challenges faced by working-class families in London during that period.

Working class families lived on £1 per week and spent 25% of their earnings on housing.

Middle class families spent 15% of their earnings on housing

The Upper middle class spent 6% of their earning on housing

NB: in the Edwardian era most households only had 1 earner!

Compared this what we spend on housing now: >40% of the median single wage! I don't care if our houses are better insulated, and I'm not dying of TB. Either fixed the housing market or raise the real wages.

And housing costs absolutely matter because so much of the population is mortgage free.