To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

Yeah, why can't disabled people just be like the rest of us? You've solved the problem 👏👏👏

what is the answer thou- we can’t afford to keep subsidising generations - people will just refuse and vote that way, which is I’ll lead to parties like reform gaining power.

there needs to be a way of making it sustainable and taxing the “rich” is not going to work

Or maybe they might get a job and become self sufficient like the rest of us?
Crazy idea I know

This ^

It's going to be a survival of the fittest. People with severe physical disabilities and those with severe learning disabilities will receive benefits, but everyone else will end up on JSA or whatever they call it now.

Agree

It will happen the suicide rate will skyrocket which has a knock on effect to family and friends as now suddenly their mh is impacted

I really hope this is the case, protect those that genuinely need assistance and let the lazy work shy go without or seek employment.

I think something people also need to be aware of like anyone with a multitude of chronic conditions you have to take a lot of meds. I take 87 pills a day most of which have side effects. It's not just the condition that effects the person also when meds are increased, tapered or changed again it can have a significant impact

This is exactly what will happen between benefits being cut and the NHS overstretched and not offering adequate care. All that has to be done is socially engineer euthanasia to be a trendy choice that honours a sick or disabled person's autonomy, rather than a cost-saving exercise (NHS/PIP provisions not good enough? Well you can always just choose to die).

It also doesn't make what you say true unless you have been through the pip assessment you genuinely have no idea

sigh

If you tax the rich they will leave. They have done before and they will do it again (see 'Brain Drain' - there's been lots of detailed reporting on this recently. People who scream 'tax the rich' just have no idea how it works in reality. It's a great idea in theory but - as with many ideas that the bulk of the population come up with to tackle thorny issues - reality is very different.

It's precisely what others countries - including our European partners - have tried to do and failed. It's what California tried to do - and now everyones buggering off to Texas.

The problem is, the rich can afford to fuck off. They don't need to stay here. So, no 'tax the rich' is not a solution. Let's not oversimplify really complex issues.

I understand. Losing the daily living part will have a big impact for some people. I just think it's important that the situation is reported accurately for the benefit of other readers. It's misleading when someone says they'll lose their PIP but they actually mean they'll lose part of it.

Most of the one million people aged 16-24 not in education, training or work were not old enough to vote in the 2016 referendum. Also, what evidence do you have that people with mental health conditions turned out to vote in large numbers? Rather than being in the 28% who did not vote.

You can keep repeating it all you like but it won't make it true.

Firstly, I don’t believe anyone is gleeful in the PIP cuts. I think people are just relieved that they themselves are not being squeezed further by cuts and taxes. I think that a small proportion of benefit claimants who do abuse the system stick in people’s minds and overshadow the majority of genuine claims.

still these people, who often due to generational unemployment or other invisible barriers do claim and could work. I agree that it will be a nightmare to train / get people to attend and be valuable contributors to the work place who come
from this group. It will take the effort and support of the whole society to include them again.

As for the people with MH conditions which are
barriers to employment and create significant disruption to work, it may be a good thing for the whole of society to support these people back into work but I agree adjustment will be needed.

I myself have battled with MH my whole
life and fight to be in work (because it’s the only thing that often keeps me going ) but I do have support at work etc.

there are so many ways for people to create a feeling of being valued and worthy and work is one of these which I believe will be a good thing for many people - if done correctly

Do you have any idea how much medical evidence you need to get pip so yes they 100% are

I have a disability that I was born with. It’s a random genetic mutation, achondroplasia, the most common form of dwarfism, the same as Ellie Simmons. As with all conditions it affects us very differently. I was having surgery for my extreme bowed legs from the age of 5. I had limb lengthening and straightening as my parents believed it would improve my life. Unfortunately for many reasons and some outing, i ended up more disabled and in worse physical condition. I was diagnosed with spinal stenosis at the age of 16, this is fairly common in people with dwarfism, for an average person it would be something that would be an older age condition, most people are 50+. At 19 the symptoms of the spinal stenosis was so bad that I had to have a spinal fusion. In total I have had over 20 surgeries, all at specialist London hospitals. I was awarded DLA at the age of 3, and indefinitely as it was clear I wouldn’t ever be able to walk much. Despite all of this I did work in a very good job, as I approached 30 my physical condition was declining rapidly. I was told one ankle is at end stage arthritis and the surgery to fuse that is around a 12 month recovery time. That’s if it’s not complicated, given they are doing surgery on an ankle that’s the size of a child. They don’t make joint replacements that small or that last for the rest of my expected life. This is what a consultant has told me.
Rather humiliating, but having a spinal fusion with my T Rex arms wasn’t best planned. I can no longer bend enough to wash or clean myself, after urination or a bowel movement. The council amazingly installed a wash dry toilet for me and honestly it was and is one of the best things to ever exist, before this I was relying on a now ex partner to clean me, or my dad, or magicking up ways that would often leave my underwear slightly soiled. Recently my loo broke, I no longer have a partner or my dad, I tried my best in the shower and this left me with infections, as well as previously suffering with many kidney infections due to particles of poo getting in, I started getting sores and infections on my areas. Showering was a disaster, not realising I had a very small cut on my toe that got infected again from trying to clean myself and bacteria getting into my toe leaving me with cellulitis. I don’t stay anywhere other than at home because of this. By the way the toilet issue only gives me 2 points on pip. So working, whilst possibly smelling of urine or holding in toilet needs doesn’t fill me with joy. Despite this I have applied for various jobs and not been able to get back into work. I hate this view now that somehow were choosing this life, or not putting ourselves out there. It’s a horrible existence. I watch my siblings who dont have any disabilities have their successful lives and it’s a bit like that phrase that Jim Bowen used to say on bulls eye of “look what you could have won”. The genuinely disabled will be the ones hit hardest, end up poorer and some taking their own lives, the scammers will always get through the net because it is a career choice for them.

As someone who does not have medical or mental health issues but who inhabits a world full of children, young people and adults with a range of health issues and disabilities, my gut feeling is that there is an age group for which probably not much can be done.
My main concern is for young people like my foster child who at the age if 11 has been waiting for an assessment for ADHD for 5 years already. There is no doubt he has the condition but no assessment means no diagnosis and no medication.

The result - he has been out of school since September, no chance of going back this year, no secondary school place. Puberty hormones are kicking in, he is becoming more aggressive and violent, he absconds taking up huge amounts of police resources.

It's a tragedy. He is so bright and intelligent, he could be an asset to society but my fear is that unless he gets help soon he will be one of those who wastes his life shut in a room gaming or worse end up in prison.
Thousands of kids like him waiting years for medication which could change their lives.
My own son has ASD, we had lots of issues in his early teens because of issues around his adoption. We were lucky to get a therapeutic intervention funded. It cost £15,000.

Yes it was expensive. But the outcome is a 21 year old in his second year at university. For a relatively small investment we now have a fully functioning adult who will contribute to our society. I call that a result.

I won my own business - sadly the above is true
We have had to make redundancies due to increase in NI and corp tax

It is a difficult one
Clearly some people are not well and need help
Others are lazy although many people here seem to think that cannot be so
I know a girl who is on disability benefit
The only issue she has is that she has never grow up and cannot deal with any conflict and needs constant approval
Her MH does not stop her going clubbing - to parties - pubs - to South Africa for 6 weeks with a friend on a holiday paid for by her parents
Her parents are minted and I and everyone who pays tax is paying for her when what she really needs is to be told to work
My grandfathers during WW2
One was a spitfire pilot
One was on destroyers
They could have been killed on any day
They saw friends skilled
They saw enemy sailors and pilots killed
After the war they had good jobs and did not fall into a pit of despair or unemployment because they would have starved as benefits were not available
So they had to get on with it
Certainly some people need help and should get it
But there is a terrible lack of resilience and independence in current society
I think some people who have a problem do not think what they can do to help themselves but just expect taxpayers to look after them

What jobs? RR and Labour have collapsed growth and actively led to recruitment freezes and redundancies. Whilst everyone was clapping like seals and shouting, smallest violin, tax the rich, private school, off you fuck etc. People were warning…scare off net contributors and there is less for everyone.

Business is not recruiting/active redundancies. Higher earners (net contributors) are changing behaviour. A mix of thresholds, reduction of allowances and possibly not worth pushing for the extra if they were fee paying or; they are leaving.

A direct impact of Labour and their budget means less for everyone as net contributors and business have said no more. The economy is shrinking. This means mass redundancy in the public sector and huge welfare cuts.

People didn’t want to hear it and here we are.

No bashing from me - I agree!

Those with serious MH conditions that make it difficult to work probably won’t be affected

its those that have some mh issues that’s are perfectly treatable with medication or self help that will be targeted

i firmly agree with Wes that there are to many people being told they have mh problems when in fact it’s a complete lack of resilience and ability to deal with change. And in my opinion it’s got much worse over the past few years

Covid was an eye opener for me on MN. Lots saying my kids can’t cop mh is being affected rather than ok it’s difficult let’s get on with life

i have absolute no doubt there are people with serious mh issues that need support. But lots just need to get a grip and get on with it. We are building a generation of snowflakes

now I await my flaming. I won’t actually be reading any comments though so bash away

Perhaps if they funded the NHS and fixed the issues less people would be on pip?

Person A has a hip problem needs a replacement finds themselves unable to continue full time work NHS waiting list means it could be years but you have to eat right? So they go part time and apply to pip to bridge the gap the worsening condition means they have to quit so they then end up on UC and going through a disability assessment getting a LCWRA award and sit and wait for an operation to fix the issue operation day comes and its worse than they expected because it's been so long they also check the quality of the other hip and reality is it's just as bad because it'd been carrying the load for five years so your back on a waiting list for five years waiting for another hip operation being told to lose weight and move more but your in agony and it's hard

Now imagine what would have happened if you could have had the operation sooner? You would have time off work and return to work within a fairly short period of time

Person B has a mental health condition they find it crippling the go to the Dr's who say they need to get out more perhaps if they lost weight they might feel better and send them on their way they also apply for benefits but they have no evidence they are mentally unwell and end up with sanction after sanction eventually they return to the Dr's who after much hemming and hawing decide to try antidepressants telling them it's not a quick fix and that they still need to get out there eventually they find work and spend a long time on antidepressants the Dr's are unhappy with this and keep removing them saying they shouldn't be reliant on them all the while not even considering the reason behind the depression eventually they give them four sessions of therapy and find out they have being horribly abused and are struggling with suicidal thoughts unfortunately after four sessions you have to pay privately so they apply for benefits (pip) to cover the extra expenses while the Dr continues to sign for the pills so they don't die

Now imagine if they were given therapy first with the option of having it for longer if needed

I could go on I could tell you about my friend who tried and fought and died my other friend who committed suicide after fighting his demons alone but somehow I don't think that people care until it happens to them