To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

Yes, because white lives matter too eh? 😑

Yes!

My daughter has Tourette’s rather than learning disabilities and she has also volunteered in a charity shop, but in the world of work - no chance. She tics, says random stuff, chucks stuff around, she has coprolalia so swearing and inappropriate/slurs.

She’s at college (with an EHCP) but has had part time jobs (usually seasonal summer stuff in restaurants/cafes/local arcades, etc) but has never managed to last longer than a couple of weeks - customers complain so she gets let go.

She’s currently working part time at a local doggy day care - it’s great, she loves it, it’s good for her (shocking) mental health and her employer is supportive up to a point, but customers are again complaining, some have threatened to go elsewhere so when he starts losing business she’ll be let go again.

And then we add in the other issues she has:

FND - she has non-epileptic seizures (so as a result isn’t allowed to drive), dystonia where her certain muscles seize up so she can’t walk or use her hands as well as memory issues, brain fog and extreme fatigue.

Autism and the related issues she struggles with.

She wants to work, when she’s correctly supported she enjoys working, but does need adjustments, she’s frequently off sick and most employers won’t look past her tics to give her a chance anyway.

In reality, who is going to employ her?

No, tax work less and wealth more. It really is pretty simple.

The "golden years" in both the UK and the USA were when we had a much higher top rate of tax than either do now, so I imagine thats also perfectly doable.

Manufacturing is too expensive for us when there are other countries which can do it so much more cheaply.

https://taxjustice.uk/blog/wealth-taxes-will-cause-the-rich-to-flee-12-wealth-tax-myths-debunked/

We can’t just tax the very rich. A surprising large proportion of all the tax revenue comes from very few people. Some of these people can easily move to another country.

Did you watch the video?

Many assets are non mobile (land, property) and for the rest there's exit taxes.

The interesting thing about disability is it can effect anyone at anytime. Nobody thinks they will become disabled or have a disabled child until they do. So anyone who is agreeing with the government on this be mindful of what your agreeing with as this isn't just about disabled people now this is everyone's future being changed

Thankyou for reading my post and I'm sorry for everything you and your family has been through its scary how quickly life can change for anyone.

I am not sure anyone is "gleeful about PIP cuts" but simply recognise that the system is not working and needs looking at. That will mean some will get less, and some more.

Completely agree. Totally disingenuous (at best) to claim that people are gleeful. People are fed up with being mugs working when there is so much freeloading for trivial reasons.

There are already lots of people with serious mental health issues that work and whose colleagues wouldn't even know about them. Why are you putting people in boxes? Your attitude is part of the problem.

Replying to Waldrusess, but quote has disappeared!
Well, I bothered to read what @Differentstarts said and I suppose I have skin in the game, having a sister-in-law who suffered an aneurism several years ago and who has short-term memory loss and has lost the ability to read, a DiL with scoliosis and a nephew with GSS syndrome (which is similar to Huntingdon's and hereditary but not on my side of the family). DiL and SiL receive PiP - but DiL thinks she will lose it. I think my DN will continue on all the benefits he gets as he is wheelchair bound and fed through a tube into his stomach (used to be a builder) and also my SiL. They all have gone through the numerous hoops required to get benefits and are all in need of help.
I think the majority of people on PiP require it and we are being spun a yarn about lots of people who are liars and malingerers.
I do think Wes Streeting is right about over-diagnosis of MH issues but I veer towards the rise in neurodiversity, ADHD, autism spectrum etc - this is where I think the over diagnosis lies. Personally I suffer from depression and have anti-depressants that enable me to sleep but hey, no problem, my DB hanged himself and my DH of 30 years and my DM both died last year - oh, and my DN has GSS and brother and sisters and all their children are in line to inherit it. No reason to be depressed, really! I don't get PiP, of course (nor do I need it).
If the economy was run for the people we could afford to support those who need it - but since the 80s the people have had to be subserviant to a neo-liberal capitalist economy that espouses wealth for those at the top and trickle down and austerity for the rest of us (and neither trickle down nor austerity work) at the expense of the Welfare State. We need Keynesianism and the social contract back.

Then that would be wrong and I hope it doesn't happen.
I also have zero trust in that very same pip system at the moment, but not for the same reason as you.

As I suggested on a different thread; invest in our industrial base. Not everyone is suited to office work or customer-facing jobs. When we actually had factories and manufactured things there were jobs for everyone

But a lot of genuinely disabled people will lose out in the cross fire. I have zero trust in the pip system to make the right decision so alot of people will suffer and that isn't right.

The logic here is weird. I don’t think that people are ‘gleeful’, I think they are simply sick of paying for the ever increasing numbers. They don’t see other peoples mental health issues as their problem, particularly when everyone has their own problems and struggles with the COL and mortgage increases etc. There are families starving in Afghanistan, but if you haven’t donated money, does that mean that you’re ‘gleeful’ about it?

@cannaecookrisotto

I am sympathetic to the need for reform, it's clear we can't sustain the rising levels of claimants

But yes currently its a joke.

Good luck with your dad's appeal.

Totally agree for the genuine claimants, I don't think any of us 'gleeful' posters are disputing that.

However, people are fed up with those that can work and just choose not too, stating they feel sad, or are anxious about going outside etc.
Less money spent on these layabouts will surely mean more money for support services that actually need it.

Except it's not simple is it. Who exactly are you talking about here? The 'rich' people who already pay 60% of income tax despite earning 10% of the income or some other rich people that you are going to come up with another magical way to tax them that means they can't just leave the country and go elsewhere. Good luck with that. 25% of the working age population don't work all you will succeed in doing is increasing that % and there will be no money to pay for anything.

Gleeful is the word isn’t it, find the whole thing disgusting we should not be punching down.

Just an FYI. Tax is payable on ESA, I receive a P60 every year.
I don’t think many people actually realise this.

This is what worries me when people say "they can get a job in a care home, they're crying out for carers". Most people just don't have the ability to do this job and why should the vulnerable elderly be expected to be on the receiving end of someone who has been forced into such a role? What could possibly go wrong?! Sure, do the gardening or answer the phone, but care for an immobile, incontinent, in constant pain, at risk of aspirating palliative care resident? Um, probably not.

Yes now your in recovery absolutely but what about when you where in the depths of it and being hospitalised. Because according to people on here it's just depression so you should of just got on with it and you can't take time of to be hospitalised as then your colleagues have to step in to cover your shift and that's not fair on them

Ok, I'll have a go.

1. redistribution of wealth - healthy life expectancy varies greatly between socio-economic groups, level it. That's a fortune saved there in expenditure.

2. give councils 0% loans to build homes - reduce the cost of housing, boost the economy and raise revenue for councils over the lifetime of those houses.

3. universal basic income - alongside pip

4. restore the rights to Union's that have been lost over the last 40+ years and stop funding employers that pay poverty wages.

There are hundreds of ways we could address the issue.

As for the 'economically inactive', that includes students, the retired and the long term sick, all of which spend money in the economy.

Our GDP per capita is more than double that of Poland and significantly more than that of Spain yet Spain pays more than double our pension and has a lower cost of living and a retirement age of 65.

It's only an issue if you live in a country that has spent 40+ years enriching the wealthy via tax and privatisation of public assets at the expense of everyone else.

Even (some of) the billionaires are embarrassed by it.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-18/billionaires-call-on-global-leaders-to-tax-them-more/103363600