Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. Fed up of hearing this expression.

I sometimes think that there's an idea that "the people who are complaining about this are the ones who don't understand what it's like to feel pain" (or feel anxious, or experience grief, or go through the menopause etc)

And I know there's levels to it, but there's also an element of, until you've been through something you don't know it's possible to do with some grit (sometimes a lot of grit). We used to respect and acknowledge it as a sign of very admirable character - in fact I would say it was a very large component of "character". PP have spoken about relatives with terminal cancer continuing to work - I've also known people like this - maybe part time or taking breaks around chemo for example, but generally keeping calm and carrying on.

But I've often seen this attitude denigrated as being a martyr or setting the expectation too high for others - but why? If someone is capable, why set their expectation lower just because someone else is worse off?

I've not had serious illness personally but have suffered other setbacks that I thought were terrible in the moment but I got through. And I feel stronger for it. If I hadn't been forced to confront them I'd still be worrying about those things that seem so minor now, and that would be incredibly life-limiting. Those of us concerned about the 20yos with anxiety etc genuinely don't want them to end up in that position - and fail to realise the enormous potential they hold, if they can "force their heart and nerve and sinew, to serve their turn long after they are done".

If it were actually about the money, there are much more effective ways to balance the books.

Wrote a PP above, and I have just read an article that points out how it could be done at a stroke.

Change the 60/40 rule that defines poverty at 60% of average earnings and low pay as 66% of the average. Both of these figures – the 60% and the 66% – are simply too high. If we leave the market to set incomes, many people will end up being on less than 66% of median wages, and even more on less than 60% of median household income. The cost of avoiding this is vast. Indeed, my opinion is that that’s rather why the targets are set so high – so as to be able to insist upon wholesale dispossession of the rich to be able to meet said targets. But the truth is this cost is too high to be borne over any medium or long term.

This is a quote from a research fellow at the Adam Smith Institute. Here's the full article.

https://capx.co/how-to-fix-britains-finances?utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_bBvM6oO7i6ohhLhXmIJR9xa2n2LLmjx-uHJYmpMDugghzl12GBX1Joya-jlhWCb5jmUvDcvFHnmIvaUCQvLjEWnY9rA&_hsmi=106253014&utm_content=106253014&utm_source=hs_email

Yes, you can stay at home as long as you like, as long as you find your own way to fund it. I have no problem with people loafing around independently if they’ve won the lottery, or they live in a tent in the forest.
I don’t think we should fund it from our hard work and sacrifices.

I also think both parents should be held fully accountable for the costs of raising a child to the point of prosecution.

I know people who refuse to work and are better off than me, I work 50+ hours a week. It Infuriates me that they get to sit at home all day. Get free prescription, free dental work, a free car , rent paid
No worries if they're ill .

I have to pay for all of these, and attend work when poorly as my rent doesn't get paid. I'm all for people getting the help they need. But the ones that cheat the system, I'm glad . Something needs to change.

Many people choose not to work or work part time. The issue is claiming benefits. I think if people are claiming benefits and they are able to work they should.

No not you personally, I was just wondering if it changed the amount of tax you were paying and made you a higher contributor. I was wondering what the highest taxed goods are and if people bought a lot of those, they would be net contributors…

We obviously can't carry on subsidising everyone. I have had recent experience of someone gaming the system with PIP - and got a £40k new car, with accompanying free insurance and servicing. I think hypochondriac fits their description - it's sickening. Sadly these cunning people will always be able to game the system, to the disadvantage of genuinely disabled people. The government has to start somewhere as the benefits costs are increasing massively and soon there won't be enough working people to subsidise everyone else.

I agree *TENSsion *

im tired of people who live in mc bubbles telling working class people how they should think how having concerns means they love to bash the disabled, those with mh issues and so on

hand wringing from a comfortable distance

Or they could get a job like others.

Insulated*

Claiming everyone who sees an issue with it being possible that people who work full-time can be financially worse off than someone who chooses to rely on the state is cheering on “hanging people” or Tories or lacking in empathy or whatever other insults have been thrown around here just indicates their privilege.

They earn enough and are insulted enough from this issue that it doesn’t matter to them. It just screams middle class ignorance.

Claiming benefits illegitimately needs to be demonised.

If the state will not effectively police it, then society must. Those who can work but choose not to, should be shamed in to changing their behaviour. In a functioning society, everyone has a contribution to make.

’All’ able shoulders must bear their share of the load, otherwise what is the point? The tax-payer is not willing to continue to be punished.

This. I have worked 40 years and will continue for a few more. I had children, illnesses, low times, menopause and all the symptoms and anxieties that it brings, bereavements and not once did I think ‘oh I’ll just give up work and claim everything I can’

i just got on with it, I’m now sick and tired of seeing people stay at home as a way of life when there are genuinely sick, elderly that need it, when libraries and hospitals and schools go without.

It has to stop.

Many of us are poor, working poor

some will get top ups UC (which is down to low wages even when working full time) or rely of that child benefit once a month to treat themselves

but we still value working because are able to many do not like their jobs and are exhausted from struggling to make ends meet and the rushing around stressing about picking children up from school/childcare but working is still the better option a strong work ethic is something I am proud of and absolutely want to pass this on to my ds

most of us on here are talking about people who are able to work but choose not to and rely on benefit’s it’s not about bashing those that can’t work be that for a short period of time or long term or who those who are actively trying and not able to find work

Yes. She is lazy and says she has a bad back and walks with a stick. Yet on sil wedding day she was dancing around like one of the Lords a leaping in the 12 days of Christmas.

The key words are “supported by partner”, ie not claiming benefits. The single mother is presumably claiming benefits, and has had the luxury of doing so till the child is 3. When you are self sufficient In the working world you generally don’t have that luxury

Well, if everyone who is currently living on benefits genuinely can’t work, there won’t be an issue, will there?

If there are are no cut backs, there cannot be a welfare system. We can’t sustain an economy where so many people rely on welfare. We cannot sustain an economy in which the lowest paid are demoralised at the knowledge those choosing to live on benefits have a better quality of life.

Your hyperbole is embarrassing

This thread has nicely put paid to the nonsense that all benefits claimants are salt of the earth hard up folks. No they are not. Almost everyone knows people who are scamming the system. And those who claim not to know anyone doing this is probably doing it themselves.

Benefits of all types need cutting deep, much deeper. The stories about lazy scammers on this thread are outrageous, it’s an absolute insult to those who are paying for these people. And rightly making people hardened towards the welfare system.

Nope.

Ordinary working folk are just fed up with being taxed to death, whilst carrying those who can work, but choose to claim state support instead.

I've added my experience to this thread.

I am a long standing Labour voter who believes in public services. I am also an education professional who believes that working adds to a purpose in life, gives a sense of community and of respect.

If public services are to help those really in need, those who are not need to be contributing to our communities and our taxes.

Agreed. It's throwing poor people under the bus and people are loving it.

I'm sure there was. I don't know anything about the claims and benefits process, but going off the comments about how hard it is to get certain benefits on this thread, I'm certain the assessor would've wanted to see medical evidence.

I'm afraid you can't educate ignorant people. Judging by the comments I think I'm right.
Clueless.

They're doing it for the votes. All the excited plebs gathering round to watch the hanging. Just look at threads like this one! I imagine lots of right-wing people are pleasantly surprised by Labour bashing the poor, and will be more likely to vote for them in future. Certainly there are lots of them in my office, gossiping about their daughter's, neighbour's, goldfish's ex-husband who makes £4 million a year on benefits, as well as having an illustrious career as a famous acrobat. I've literally never seen them as excited about anything.

If it were actually about the money, there are much more effective ways to balance the books.

My friends daughter has choosen not to work. She dosent have to do what you say people have to do because she is in the process of getting her 2 children diagnosed with adhd. This means that she offically becomes their carer. In reality this shouldnt stop her working because both her children are in Ft education and after school my friend has offered to look after them because she herself dosent work, but she admits that she dosent want to work because its to much like hard work, and if her children dont get the diagnosis of adhd, then she will have a 1 night stand and get herself pregnant so she cant work because she has a young baby.