Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. Fed up of hearing this expression.

Utter bollocks

they all seem to have a story of siblings/parent in laws/cousins/aunts/uncles or neighbours who definitely do choose not to work or fiddle or claim disability benefits.

I don't think people "choose not to work" or "fiddle".

I think people find work hard (don't we all). But some people give up a bit more easily if they can, and some people develop a self perpetuating mindset, one they truly believe, that they can't work.

I don't for a minute think anyone thinks "oh i'll pretend I've got anxiety to get benefits". I do think people struggle to contextualise, and get in a mentality of thinking that what others consider "normal" feelings of stress and worry in life, are "worse" for them. If you don't ever have to cope and soldier through, you don't recognise your own ability to do so. I thinka lot of people get trapped in a cycle of thinking they can't, and work is scary, and they can't manage it, then they haven't worked for a while and it's even more scary and unmanageable.

Then actually, they've not worked for ages and become less employable - so probably what's accessible to them is entry level/low paid. But what they've been receiving as tax free benefits actually works out as quite a bit more money than the minimum wage job that looks quite scary. So work is scary, and feels like you'll be worse off, so how are you supposed to manage and you can't etc and its overwhelming and anxiety provoking.

It's a trap and a lot of people are in it. What Liz Kendall is trying to do is get people out of it, and not let people get stuck in it to begin with, younger people especially.

I know numerous people who go on to job sites and take a note of jobs and update their journal to say they have applied for them when they haven’t, no one checks. They don’t get sent on courses or interviews as standard as a lot of work coaches don’t care enough and just tick the box. Yes there will be some who go through it but for most part it’s pretty easy to claim. P.s I worked in DWP for 13 years so this comes from experience

I once sat in on an interview (training on doing them in future) and the person sat down and said, I'm only here because they said I need to attend interviews or they'd stop my money.🤣

Alternatively I went through a period of 7 months where I wanted to work but I just couldn't get an interview, it was soul destroying, I really did want to work.

my neighbour does. he openly talks about never working and playing the system. overheard him on the phone with someone recently telling them how to score points for pip and if they got it he wanted some of their backpay when they got it for helping them, seen him with my own eyes when someone from housing was coming to his house he called his ex and told her to drop two walking sticks off, she did, he then walked around hunched over with two sticks until housing officer left, sticks never to be seen again.

he's late 30s and never worked. he openly says to people theres nothing wrong with him, he openly calls the walking sticks 'pip sticks' he openly tells people how he scams the system.

as well as pip he is on uc and is classed as not fit to work.. its people like him they should be targeting not genuinly sick and disabled people.

I have a partner. I was speaking on behalf of the woman the other poster was so bitterly jealous of. As if being a single mother and having to do everything yourself, barely getting by on benefits payments is a life to be so envious and enraged by.

If someone like my dad for example who worked all his life in manual work could no longer do that due to health, there’s no way he’d have got a job in an office or similar. He just wouldn’t have had the manner to do it.

But he couldn't do anything? Couldn't go work in a college training young people in his trade? Or work in a trade outfitters like wickes or the like?

I think we all have to be more open to doing different work if no longer suited to our first/preferred career. Sometimes that might also mean earning less - but surely better to earn something than nothing.

I know of someone in his 40's who has never worked a day in his life. He absolutely 100% is making a lifestyle choice.

I think she is saying her friends opinion of supermarket workers not hers

Covid changed everything mostly phone service now.

Single mothers are not pressurised to find work. They don't even need to look for work until the youngest is 3, which I wholeheartedly agree with. They can't stay off work forever though, that wouldn't be fair on those parents who have to go out to work.

@girlfriend44 honestly wrong place to post this. MN's hate benefit claimants and for so many of them who apparently earn 6 figures and all the "nobody in my circle" brigade bullshitters they all seem to have a story of siblings/parent in laws/cousins/aunts/uncles or neighbours who definitely do choose not to work or fiddle or claim disability benefits.

Well you only get to stay at home if you and your partner decide that works for your family. A lot of mums go back to work to support their families after having kids. If you are a single parent the onus is on you to provide for your child and ofcourse claim from the other parent of your child. But a lot of single parents think it is a right to sit at home, if you want to do that then find someone who will support you with that, it can’t be other tax payers. You chose to have a child, take responsibility for it.

I'm not sure anyone here has expressed the opinion that those with genuine illnesses and disabilities that mean they are incapable of working should not be supported by the relevant benefits. That's what they are there for.

Honestly if someone is genuinely spending 35 hours a week working on getting a job for a long time (months) and not getting any job offers then they are performing very poorly at that role! Sounds to me like they are purposefully incompetent

Dear employers.
I have triple organ failure, malignant hypertension and diabetes. I can only walk a few feet before collapsing.
I have to sleep for an hour every time I get up for a piss. Going for a shit takes me an hour and four hours sleep to recover from. I'm not legally allowed to drive. I don't have the strength to push my own wheelchair. I'm in so much pain I can't even tolerate moderate sound. I regularly shout at people because I can't cope with the suffering and be polite at the same time. Sometimes I can't remember simple words. I'm fully lucid for about two hours a day. It's random and only if conditions are just so and often in the middle of the night when the tablet's side effects are wearing off. I used to be fit and quite intelligent. Can I have a job. Maybe, a public facing role. I smell a bit like shit, piss and infected pus sometimes and all my teeth fell out but I have to do my part for society. Go on. Pleease

P.S. This is true, my life, not hyperbole.

I’m sure supermarket workers will love your opinion of them!

Having worked in recruitment I can confirm this happens all the time, blank application forms, applications off people with no relevant experience at all, multiple people who are shortlisted for jobs like cleaners and never turn up for interview even when chased - you can spot the ones doing it so that they are seen to apply for jobs

I've noticed a theme in a lot of the benefits threads here and elsewhere the last few days.

"You guys just don't understand, it's really hard, we have to fill in a page of diary entries / spend 20 hours filling out the application forms / call an advisor occasionally!"

Yeah okay, I have to work a 50h+ work week. Every week. Plus commute.

Genuine question how much are benefits actually worth? I get PIP due to having Rheumatoid Arthritis and constantly worry about being made to retire through ill health. I would never be able to manage on benefits if I had to. I do know that young people with MH problems sign themselves in to a local unit every time their PiP is due to be reassessed but can’t imagine having to cope with so little

That wasn't my experience when I had to sign on between jobs
The first 2/3 months I had to go weekly and then I dropped down to "less intensive" and only had to go in/do a phone call twice weekly
I was applying to plenty of jobs, it wasn't taking 35 hours a week by any stretch but showed up as plenty

I could easily see how people could game the system if they wanted

You are so far wrong it’s actually amusing.

You tell yourself that if it makes you feel better, but I know people who can work but choose not too and live life on benefits.

Just to clarify for you further, the job centre or DWP see some claimants as low risk, so are not required to look for work if the benefit money is a low enough amount. I know a couple where the woman works full time but is on minimum wage, pays into a pension so only take home around 1500 a month, this is then topped up with UC of about £600. If the man worked too they wouldn’t get it, they get it because he doesn’t work. He is choosing to stay at home and not work, as it’s “only” £600 he doesn’t have to attend meetings or is even asked about applying for jobs, he is classed as low risk or something so doesn’t get pestered at all. It’s unbelievable as he can work but isn’t.

My cousin could have worked if she hadn't been funded such that she could spend her whole life not working and builtd the idea of work up in her mind as something she "can't manage".

She is 49 and never has worked. She's in a cheaper part of the country and managed to get benefits (I think lcwra, but not pip) and lives on that money.

She's pretty good on computers, did well enough at school to get a good university place but dropped out. She lives with her mum. She doesn't have any major physical health issues and never has. She has a driving license and drives regularly. The conditions she has as grounds for the benefits she gets are anxiety, ocd, agoraphobia & depression - she self reported those symptoms & sought treatment via the GP and eventually there was a long enough medical paper trail attesting how hard she indicated she was finding every day life. She is anxious & depressed for sure but the life she leads at home (her mum is quite hypochondriac with some health anxiety thrown in) is probably a contributor together with her parents divorce.

She has enough money, she has a lot of leisure time and does things she enjoys.

She refuses to engage with any cbt or therapy etc as says she can't manage it because it makes her anxious.

There was a point when she was about 20 when if there had been zero money available i think she'd have had a go at sticking out a job & it would have been the making of her, i think it would given her confidence and independence from her mum, she just needed there to be no choice but to make a go of it.

Now at almost 50 she is basically beyond help.

Hmm I have mixed feelings. If someone like my dad for example who worked all his life in manual work could no longer do that due to health, there’s no way he’d have got a job in an office or similar. He just wouldn’t have had the manner to do it. But equally we do have several family members who have played the system and sat on their arse with their hand out for decades. It’s infuriating to be paying for these people but what can you do. No one is going to give them a job now.

But equally running a country is bloody expensive and only going to get more so when we need to increase our defence spending. So we need to (a) make cuts elsewhere and (b) everyone needs to pay more tax.

I might be totally wrong but I’m expecting them to go for the softer mh diagnosis like the can’t works due to anxiety. Evidence suggests not working makes it worse but I’m not convinced this approach will help.