Nobody is allowed to choose not to work. Fed up of hearing this expression.

There is also the fact that someone staying at home when their children are at school is not paying tax, so is effectively expecting those who work to support them whether or not they claim benefits. Who do they think pays for the NHS, education, defence, the police etc, if not taxpayers? It doesn't matter how much their husband pays in tax, as that is related to his earnings, not hers, so even very high tax payers are not 'covering' their partner's contributions.

Because one lot expect the taxpayer to pay them to stay at home, the others are funded by partners ... which is fine.

What people truly fail to understand is this.
If the rules change to toughen them up, crackdown, whatever, the fakers will be mostly fine. They have the energy and strength to find a way round it. It's usually the genuine sick and disabled who get their benefits removed because to fight back or find a way round the new rules takes time and energy you don't have so you just give up trying and wait for death.

I've got no fight left. Just pure impotent rage boiling away inside of me, making my conditions even worse.

I've wasted one of my lucid periods on this stupid fucking forum trying to talk to people who have no desire to understand anyone but themselves and are largely so full of it shit it's flowing out of their ears.

Being a stay at home parent is a privilege, if the family unit can afford this privilege, good for them, but it's not a lifelong right that must be supported by a tax payer.

If they can't provide for their children Mums (and Dads) need to work, regardless of their marital status. Why should I pay for somebody else's kids because their parent(s) choose not to work?

Yes, children learning to survive, through situations they should never have been forced to deal with, surrounded by adults who may have mental ill health, addiction, early and repeated parenthood, poverty, those children had no role models or balanced coping skills. Expecting those children to acclimatise into the working world without supports is unfair and obnoxious.

However offer the supports, early and often and perhaps the cycle might be broken.

The frustration I feel is in response to those who refuse to use their privilege to actually support themselves during their lifetime. The helpless, hapless, privileged Peter Pans, I know these are in the minority, but I know a few.

When you say ‘rent top up’ what do you mean? Does she get some of it paid by housing benefit? And is that because she gets other benefits? I don’t know how HB works.

The former is illegal and the latter legal, most people dislike people doing illegal things... especially as they are paying their tax to fund it!

Oh my sweet summer child. You have no idea, do you?

You do realise that people who ARE choosing not to work, deliberately flunk interviews, or don't turn up at all? When I had my own company, we had it all the time. People are actively choosing not to work and it's very simple to do.

They can keep having kids every few years though, to the same man, even though they are “single”. Allegedly.

I think people definitely do choose not to work, for example you may see wealthy people take the time to go travelling or do something enriching. Whereas poorer people may have no option but to be reliant on the state; ultimately both groups may feel more comfortable out of employment for whatever reason.

Yes. I was back at work at 4mth. Not 12mths. As needed the money as self employed

not sure why it’s 3 yrs for uc

why not a year like maternity is

The online diary could be things like "i handed my cv in at boots and whsmith on wednesday" "i made a linkedin profile" etc etc. It will take 10 mins and there's no 'proof' required.

I don't know what part of the country you live in but voluntary admissions are almost impossible these days. My friends wife was sectioned and the nearest available bed was 200 miles away. You can't just book yourself in somewhere local any more.

This

I only told a tiny part of what I've been through and continue to go through. My favourite part is the bit where several cardiologists, GPs and nurses have warned me about my level of Sudden Cardiac Death risk. Cheers me up no end that I might be out of it without having to do it myself.

I only just got enough points for basic daily living PIP. Unlikely to get any with the new rules because no category gave me 4 points. The PIP decision maker twisted my evidence and lied a lot. The expert social care chap from the council who did all the work to apply for it for me because I was too scared and embarrassed to even try, read the decision and expressed an opinion wondering if the bloke had actually read what he had written on the form.

I got 12 points for mobility so hopefully I might retain the £71 weekly mobility allowance that goes straight to the local council towards the £140 a week rent and council tax for our little flat. DH works full time. PIP is/was/??? the only help we can get on top of his near minimum wage. We lose most of it in the days off he has to take when I have another heart episode of some sort (heart failure, another heart attack, atrialfibrillation again or maybe a step change or fun and the kidneys or liver have taken another injury. Hopefully, it will be an amputation or two soon , just for a nice change).

Safety net, my arse.

Absolutely this. My DH has a friend who is totally able to work but has chosen not to over the last 16 years since her DD aged 16 has been at school.

She's not struggling with any health issues, just sheer laziness. I've been suffering from awful pain and post concussion syndrome symptoms and a neurological involuntary movement disorder for the past decade, yet am not eligible for PIP. I work to provide for my family though.

How come she gets to skive off work and I don't?

I've only read the first couple of pages, so maybe I'm going over old ground.

Living in an area where there's a culture of "not working" is insane, and probably not something that many people appreciate.

I grew up in the North side of Glasgow, where deprivation was considered the worst in Europe.
We all had addicted parents, we lived in slums, and had zero access to food/culture/space/education.

Growing up on an estate in Glasgow is fucking horrific.
Most MNers won't be able to relate, believe me.

People saying "just get a job"?
How? If you have no education? No CV? You've never been able to learn any life skills?
You've got a "family name" that's associated with criminal behaviour, so how do you escape that?

Nobody has got any money, so there's no passing down of wealth.
Children can't access books, their parents can't facilitate their education.

Kids learn "survival"- which is how to stay alive in a culture of crime, drugs, deprivation, and yes - working out how to "play the system".

With no education, no CV, no experience, and a criminal record - who the fuck do you think are employing these people?
Where can they get references?
How can they get basic level GCSEs in Maths and English, if they're in 'survival mode'?

I broke free from the culture of my background, but it didn't come without consequence.
I've had to go NC with my family and move away.
My own mother is furious that I dared "break the mould".
She would far rather I was an addict, living in poverty.

So please, it's never just a simple case of getting a job.

My DS, was made redundant he had to attend weekly appointments at job centre, evidence job hunting, had to travel up to 1hour per way for a mpinimum wage job. UC for a 24year old is about £350 per month plus a housing element of about £400, unfortunately his landlord didn't get the government memo that he should be charging the under 25s less rent. So the £400 a month didn't cover his share of the rent in his house share.
He worked full time and paid tax and NI for 6years before this. Job centre told him to downplay and his apprenticeship qualifications and specialist skills and make his cv more suitable for warehouse and retail.
UC is not an easy ride, thankfully he has found suitable employment using the skills he trained for without job centres help.

Exactly what i thought

@0ohLarLar I totally agree with your comments - but I do think there are some too who are very astute and make a conscious decision

As usual, people totally missing the point that benefit fraud, is actually a small amount in the great scheme of things. For example, compared to tax avoidance by companies and the very rich.

But it's easy and fun to get the pitchforks out over the possibility that someone might be getting £80 odd a week that they're not entitled to. People on benefits are hardly living the high life, are they? Those salivating over bashing the poor, are gross. They should educate themselves on actual injustices.

That simply isn’t possible for everyone, though.

Not every trade needs people to work in a college to train others and you probably don’t need that many people to do that anyway, even if everyone was suited to that.

I have an older relative (now retired) who did unskilled manual work all his working life. Possibly has a mild intellectual disability but never diagnosed. Never learnt to drive. There’s absolutely no way he could have retrained into anything but that type of work - yes, he could have transitioned to a different type of unskilled manual work, but when you become physically incapable of doing one type it tends to let most of the others out as well.

He would fall between the cracks of the system if he was a few years younger. Don’t think he could have carried on until 68 but (rightly) wouldn’t qualify for disability benefits as he’s perfectly capable of doing the “life skills” activity and his walking ability isn’t restricted.

There will probably be quite a few people like him around.

@girlfriend44 I think lots of the people posters are talking about are more often than not getting UC in relation to ‘health’ aspects rather than pure joblessness/between jobs- it’s quite amazing the number of people who can’t actually complete a decent application form or turn up on time but are more than capable of multiple hoop jumping with forms for cash that doesn’t require them to work and struggle with getting through life but seem to be quite capable when it comes to holidays or hobbies or meeting up with family.

im actually a centre left voter and I want more help for those genuinely needing help be it short term or long term , I am though very aware that there are many pisstakers around - a few of whom I know. One is a single mum, gets great maintenance, ( not counted against UC) her rent fully covered ( housing association) plus full amount of UC - both kids over 8 - she simply isn’t hassled- it’s come up in conversation before- as she says she would be receiving only about the same in a modest just aboveMW job and would be no better off at all - plus the hassle of school holidays etc. do I think it’s pisstake - yep, would I do same in her position- I’m honestly not sure .

two others I know Late 50s- haven’t worked since their 20s - both a bit odd I admit but savvy enough to make sure they got diagnosed that looking for a job was giving them severe anxiety - so now receive because of their health condition- both more than capable of working albeit not in every job- but both have developed 12o clock get up habits and lazyitis

its an epidemic sadly of people who if they can ‘get by’ on benefits can no longer be arsed- and whilst the OPs post may be what she has experienced I think that situation is very specific to claiming based on joblessness for non habitual claimers- not the true professionals who know every trick in the book !

My daughter was on UC and was penalised for doing her MA to improve her chances of getting off UC 🤷‍♀️.
We funded her studies ,she is now in a profession which is helping other people to improve their lives and got her off UC .