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BE - dog and newborn guilt

313 replies

Cat921 · 18/03/2025 19:29

Three weeks ago we had our reactive 14 year old Jack Russell put to sleep because of his strange behaviour around our newborn baby and I feel so guilty.

Our dog was our whole life. We loved him dearly! My husband had him before we met since he was a puppy so for 14 years and I had him for 9 years. He was very reactive and we changed our whole life since I have known my husband for him. He was very territorial of the home and we couldn’t invite people over so we would have to put him upstairs away from visitors. He had previously bitten two people who entered the house quite a few years previously.
He accepted my mum eventually after she give him treats but had to be introduced with a muzzle. On walks we kept him close to use as he did not like other dogs or people and we were unsure if he would bite out of anxiety. He was an anxious dog who hated baths, blowing out candles, and sneezes. He would need to be on a lead in the garden as he hated the dog next door and would bark at him incessantly through the fence and we also were worried about him getting out and potentially biting someone out of fear. He hated when parcels would be dropped off and we would have to fight to get to the door. He had three people in his life he was fine with and who he loved. He hated the car and we could not take him anywhere or to public places as he would get so anxious.

When we first returned home, for the first three days we were surprised as our dog was fine with our newborn and we introduced them from a distance and let him smell her blanket and baby grow. I bought extra treats and toys for him. I naively thought he would be fine but my husband had had prior reservations before we brought her home. We were hoping he would sense my pregnancy as he would always sit on my knee for cuddles. After a few days, he barked at my baby in her Moses basket and my husband grew unsure of his intentions. He started becoming stressed when she cried as if he realised that she was suddenly here and would hide under the table and started weeing in the house. We never sanctioned him for this. He then started taking an interest in the Moses basket in the living room and was obsessed with jumping up at it even when she wasn’t crying. He wasn’t necessarily bothered about her when I was holding her on the sofa. We contacted a dogs trust behaviourist for advice. We couldn’t have a behaviourist come to the house as he does not accept visitors. He then continued to bark when she cried and we recorded my babies cried and used a doll (suggested by dogs trust) to positively reinforce him leaving it alone with treats but this did not work. He then started jumping up at me on the sofa when holding my baby with his tail down and we recorded this and sent to dogs trust who said it was potentially concerning behaviour. Our dog slept in our bed with us his whole life and our baby had her next to me crib in there and I felt uneasy about him accessing it if I was asleep at night as it was on his level. He never bothered it the previous nights but I ended up sleeping downstairs with her the few nights after that which was hard with a newborn. We had to put his muzzle on to calm him in the house as he would not leave the Moses basket alone.

We were able to manage all of this behaviour previous to my daughter being born as he was the most loving dog with us and never bit us or showed any aggression to me and my husband. We loved him so much but this was hard to manage with a newborn. I think I know ultimately it was the right decision but feel bad as he looked to me to protect him and would always come to me when scared! The guilt is awful! It was such a stressful situation and hormones were everywhere and feel we should have gave him longer than a week to adjust but me and my partner just were unsure of his behaviour and couldn’t read him and weren’t sure if we could take that chance with our newborn. We were worried this anxiety would manifest itself into aggression. We could not rehome him as he would not do well in that situation and could be a potential risk to strangers. We also read that dogs don’t see babies as human and as potentially an animal and prey which scared us. We are heartbroken that we had to make this decision. Anyone had a similar situation and how do I deal with this guilt?

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Steambeets · 01/04/2025 10:03

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 24/03/2025 17:48

Skinthin · 24/03/2025 15:59

say that to try to manipulate others

why would people on this thread be expressing that then? Who would they be trying to manipulate for what purposes?

Some people feel differently to others about animals. There are actually plenty of people who vastly prefer animals to children- sometimes other humans in general

Edited

I didn't mean on this thread, I meant in general, in my experience. If the dog is presented as a literal family member then it makes it harder to enforce reasonable boundaries re the dog, eg saying you don't want it on the furniture in your own home when it's there with its owners. It's an attempt at manipulation, to try to get their way.

Some people prefer dogs to children, and that's their prerogative. But the dog people also need to accept that they can't enforce on other people their belief that their dog is part of the family.

On the whole, just like with people:

  • if someone encounters negativity from someone towards their dog, maybe that person just doesn't like dogs; but
  • if someone encounters negativity from most people towards their dog, the problem is the dog and/or the owner, nit the other people.

You also keep mentioning the point around people viewing animals as disposable. You're right, and it's sad, but you're directing the comment at the wrong people. It's (some of) the ones with pets who are the problem on that front, not the ones without...

flipflophjnnsnnd · 24/03/2025 16:10

You did protect him. He clearly had major issues which came out in reactive aggression. A happy/well dog does not behave that way. It sounds like previously you did everything and he still had problems.

The worst thing for this type of dog is to be abandoned or taken to a shelter and then go through the stress of being stuck there or going to another family where there is a huge risk of injury.

Skinthin · 24/03/2025 16:02

Regretsmorethanafew · 24/03/2025 10:28

Like I said, dog people are crazy 🤷‍♀️

dog people are crazy
some people don’t accept the dominant social norm that animals’ lives are disposable / low value.

Skinthin · 24/03/2025 15:59

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 24/03/2025 09:56

I think people were taking the analogy a bit too literally. Taking my even more ridiculous example above and flipping it, tbh I would think it a bit weird/unhinged if someone said they would hypothetically allow every child on the planet to die to save their dog. That's not me being hypocritical, because pets aren't children.

IME people who say their dog is literally part of the family (as in, saying the dog is literally like a child rather than like family in a "we love him so much, can't imagine life without our lovely dog" kind of way) say that to try to manipulate others. There was a thread at christmas where a lot of crazy dog people were ripping into the OP for not wanting her family members to bring their dogs into her house. People who think like that conveiently don't think that their furry family member needs to behave itself, however. When it suits them the dog magically becomes an animal again!

say that to try to manipulate others

why would people on this thread be expressing that then? Who would they be trying to manipulate for what purposes?

Some people feel differently to others about animals. There are actually plenty of people who vastly prefer animals to children- sometimes other humans in general

Regretsmorethanafew · 24/03/2025 10:28

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/03/2025 10:16

I still can't believe that some people think the OP should have potentially given up the opportunity ever to have children for the sake of a 14 year old mentally ill dog.

Like I said, dog people are crazy 🤷‍♀️

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/03/2025 10:16

I still can't believe that some people think the OP should have potentially given up the opportunity ever to have children for the sake of a 14 year old mentally ill dog.

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 24/03/2025 09:56

Skinthin · 24/03/2025 08:46

Yes exactly . But when pp said that earlier a lot of people got unnecessarily outraged. People become rageful and scornful at the idea that a person could truly love an animal as a member of their family. This is because we live in a culture/ society that depends on a social norm that animal lives are disposable and of low value- as per most of the responses on this thread.

Edited

I think people were taking the analogy a bit too literally. Taking my even more ridiculous example above and flipping it, tbh I would think it a bit weird/unhinged if someone said they would hypothetically allow every child on the planet to die to save their dog. That's not me being hypocritical, because pets aren't children.

IME people who say their dog is literally part of the family (as in, saying the dog is literally like a child rather than like family in a "we love him so much, can't imagine life without our lovely dog" kind of way) say that to try to manipulate others. There was a thread at christmas where a lot of crazy dog people were ripping into the OP for not wanting her family members to bring their dogs into her house. People who think like that conveiently don't think that their furry family member needs to behave itself, however. When it suits them the dog magically becomes an animal again!

Skinthin · 24/03/2025 08:46

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 24/03/2025 02:24

That's why it's a silly hypothesis as it doesn't really mean anything other than that you really love your dog. In an equally silly hypothetical situation, I'd let every dog in the whole world die if it was a choice between them and my children. But that doesn't really tell us much other than that I love my kids more than a random stranger's pet - who knew??

Yes exactly . But when pp said that earlier a lot of people got unnecessarily outraged. People become rageful and scornful at the idea that a person could truly love an animal as a member of their family. This is because we live in a culture/ society that depends on a social norm that animal lives are disposable and of low value- as per most of the responses on this thread.

JaneyDC · 24/03/2025 07:24

SquashedSquid · 24/03/2025 00:04

It's actually about someone's random kid, not my own. I'd take a bullet for my kids and my dog. My dog is my best friend in a completely different way to my relationship with my children who aren't by my side 24/7. I'm sorry you can't understand the love some of us have for our animal family members. I'd actually save my dog over my non immediate relatives such as cousins etc too.

Well, that's more understandable. But there are people who still believe their dogs are equal to their children and that is not right. It makes me feel sad for their kids.

I understand that people love their pets, but I personally wouldn't take a bullet for my pet. I'd rather live to look after my family and enjoy my life.

SquashedSquid · 24/03/2025 05:37

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 24/03/2025 02:24

That's why it's a silly hypothesis as it doesn't really mean anything other than that you really love your dog. In an equally silly hypothetical situation, I'd let every dog in the whole world die if it was a choice between them and my children. But that doesn't really tell us much other than that I love my kids more than a random stranger's pet - who knew??

Well, exactly.

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 24/03/2025 02:24

SquashedSquid · 24/03/2025 00:04

It's actually about someone's random kid, not my own. I'd take a bullet for my kids and my dog. My dog is my best friend in a completely different way to my relationship with my children who aren't by my side 24/7. I'm sorry you can't understand the love some of us have for our animal family members. I'd actually save my dog over my non immediate relatives such as cousins etc too.

That's why it's a silly hypothesis as it doesn't really mean anything other than that you really love your dog. In an equally silly hypothetical situation, I'd let every dog in the whole world die if it was a choice between them and my children. But that doesn't really tell us much other than that I love my kids more than a random stranger's pet - who knew??

SquashedSquid · 24/03/2025 00:04

JaneyDC · 23/03/2025 21:01

I own a cat. It's nowhere near as important to me as my two children. I like my cat, but I don't love it like I do my kids. In my opinion, it's perfectly normal for an adult with children to feel this way. If I loved my cat equal to my kids, I'd be a shit mum. Same goes for dog people. 🤷🏼‍♀️

It's actually about someone's random kid, not my own. I'd take a bullet for my kids and my dog. My dog is my best friend in a completely different way to my relationship with my children who aren't by my side 24/7. I'm sorry you can't understand the love some of us have for our animal family members. I'd actually save my dog over my non immediate relatives such as cousins etc too.

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 21:34

JaneyDC · 23/03/2025 21:01

I own a cat. It's nowhere near as important to me as my two children. I like my cat, but I don't love it like I do my kids. In my opinion, it's perfectly normal for an adult with children to feel this way. If I loved my cat equal to my kids, I'd be a shit mum. Same goes for dog people. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I like my cat, but I don't love it like I do my kids.

nobody said you should love your cat like you love your kids . That pp said she loved her dog more than someone else’s kids. Completely different and also completely normal. (Most people love their pets; most people don’t love the children of strangers)

Find it a bit weird that you say you “like” your cat though. 🤷🏼‍♀️

JaneyDC · 23/03/2025 21:01

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 20:07

I don’t believe anyone has said that they value dogs’ lives over babies’ lives as a general statement (- a lot of people of course have said the reverse, declaring this obvious and the only sane position) .
One poster very honestly said that she would worry about looking out for her own dog, (who she knows and loves and is responsible for) before she would worry about looking out for a stranger’s baby, who she doesn’t know and doesn’t love and isn’t responsible for. Sounds like a person who loves their pet.

i get that some people don’t understand how a human could really love and value an animal. In my opinion those humans aren’t fit to own pets:

Edited

I own a cat. It's nowhere near as important to me as my two children. I like my cat, but I don't love it like I do my kids. In my opinion, it's perfectly normal for an adult with children to feel this way. If I loved my cat equal to my kids, I'd be a shit mum. Same goes for dog people. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 20:07

I don’t believe anyone has said that they value dogs’ lives over babies’ lives as a general statement (- a lot of people of course have said the reverse, declaring this obvious and the only sane position) .
One poster very honestly said that she would worry about looking out for her own dog, (who she knows and loves and is responsible for) before she would worry about looking out for a stranger’s baby, who she doesn’t know and doesn’t love and isn’t responsible for. Sounds like a person who loves their pet.

i get that some people don’t understand how a human could really love and value an animal. In my opinion those humans aren’t fit to own pets:

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 19:50

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 23/03/2025 19:44

Mixed up your username with another poster - apologies.

no worries

JaneyDC · 23/03/2025 19:44

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 16:18

All the posters disagreeing with you disgust me
People upset about killing a dog disgust you?

No. Quite clearly, I have written that people who value dogs' lives above babies' lives disgust me. 🙄

If you can't see the difference between killing a dog for fun or critically thinking about the possibility of harm that an aggressive/troubled dog could have on an infant, then you're not fit to be a parent.

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 23/03/2025 19:44

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 19:36

What hyperbole? Please point to where I have used hyperbole.

(I don’t have a dog and I don’t eat meat, not that it’s relevant).

Edited

Mixed up your username with another poster - apologies.

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 19:36

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 23/03/2025 17:52

You may disagree with what the OP did and that's fine, but having a dog humanely put down does not deserve the hyperbole you and other posters are giving it. Wait until you find out how the factory farmed animals used to make dog food are treated. Or do their lives not matter because they can't be trussed up in a christmas jumper for instagram?

What hyperbole? Please point to where I have used hyperbole.

(I don’t have a dog and I don’t eat meat, not that it’s relevant).

DreadInvestigations · 23/03/2025 18:14

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 23/03/2025 17:52

You may disagree with what the OP did and that's fine, but having a dog humanely put down does not deserve the hyperbole you and other posters are giving it. Wait until you find out how the factory farmed animals used to make dog food are treated. Or do their lives not matter because they can't be trussed up in a christmas jumper for instagram?

I also wonder how many of these people saying that the OP should put her fertility on hold for several years for the sake of a dog, are vegetarians.. I presume they are. No animal should ever be hurt etc.

this was always a country of dog lovers. But I feel since the pandemic, some people have really lost the plot.

SonoPazziQuestiRomani · 23/03/2025 17:52

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 16:18

All the posters disagreeing with you disgust me
People upset about killing a dog disgust you?

You may disagree with what the OP did and that's fine, but having a dog humanely put down does not deserve the hyperbole you and other posters are giving it. Wait until you find out how the factory farmed animals used to make dog food are treated. Or do their lives not matter because they can't be trussed up in a christmas jumper for instagram?

Skinthin · 23/03/2025 16:18

JaneyDC · 23/03/2025 13:42

Baby humans are, without a doubt, more important than dogs. OP, you definitely did the right thing. You tried and ultimately it did not work out. You both did the right thing to protect your innocent baby.

All the posters disagreeing with you disgust me. It is disgusting that they would quite clearly value their dog above their own child, thus opening them up to all sorts of danger. "My dog would NEVER do that" is too often quoted, until suddenly the pet DOES do something like that and it's too late.

All the posters disagreeing with you disgust me
People upset about killing a dog disgust you?

whippy1981 · 23/03/2025 14:54

Bignanna · 23/03/2025 14:41

Yes there was a solution- OP took everything into account, and made the correct decision. She got her priorities right! There was no other solution in the circumstances. Why can’t you see it?

Oh I can see it is a solution. I have never said it cannot happen and it doesn't solve the problem. There are many solutions to this problem. Many morally ok and many immoral.

I disagree that it is a morally correct solution which are the words you were meant to say I presume - I believe it is an immoral one that is about her wants above the needs of the dog and baby. There are many other immoral solutions to this situation - she could've taken many. Some which you may have even found immoral. Everyone's standards or moral and immoral are different. This is one that I find immoral. You on the other hand think this is morally correct. We are two different people with two different opinions. You do know that is normal for people to disagree and think differently on topics?

It is ok for both of us to think different things. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong. It makes it an opinion. Why can you not see that we can both have an opinion?

I just see more than one solution whereas you see hers as being ok so see no need to consider any other.

Bignanna · 23/03/2025 14:41

whippy1981 · 23/03/2025 14:16

I didn't compare her I was explaining cruelty as you said that people do not do such things and my point was - yes they do. If you did read that and think it was a comparison about her and them then that is your subconscious thinking that.

There was a solution. It worries me that people do not think logically and take the easy option whether is is immoral or not. She put her baby at risk and the dog at risk to meet her desires.

Edited

Yes there was a solution- OP took everything into account, and made the correct decision. She got her priorities right! There was no other solution in the circumstances. Why can’t you see it?