All crime docs are about men killing women!

Of course I wouldn't expect to be raped or murdered by a woman but due to being slim I would still feel physically threatened by an aggressive woman. If we are going down the route of talking about every little aspect of men then I dont think we can ignore that women can be truly awful. Yes its different to sexual behaviour but you can easily say there are plenty of nasty vindictive dangerous women out there. Women can make other women (and men) feel very bad, just in other ways than sexually.

It's interesting (and depressing) that conversations about male violence against women ALWAYS ends up with people saying 'but women can be violent too'.
Yes, of course they can but we're not talking about that are we?

Two women a week are murdered by men - usually by their current or former partner.

97% of women have experienced sexual harassment (guess who is doing the harassing?)

Women as a group alter their behaviour due to fear of being harassed or attacked by men.

1 in 4 women in England and Wales will experience domestic abuse.

Show me where women, as a group are behaving in a way that results in men (or women) experiencing the above?

So you say. But then go on about how everyone has different standards etc.. Just because someone accepts being hit or raped it doesn't make it legal.

Thats why we have laws. And thats why we have this conversation. If it makes anyone feel uncomfortable or unsafe, it shouldnt be allowed. Collectively. And women should defend women. They should not be (bad) male behaviour apologists.

Because many women like @Anchorage56 are still conditioned to accept behaviours and norms from men that other women are fed up with.

I'm glad she's here, engaging in this conversation. Maybe one day she might realise that women too have the right to set the standard of how we want to be approached, looked at and treated. Because behaviour is not objective. If it makes anyone uncomfortable, it is wrong. And more often than not, it is the men who make women uncomfortable. Not the other way around.

And if you don't see that, you're either in denial. Or you live in an alternative reality, where i assure you we'd all happily immigrate to.

Because many women like @Anchorage56 are still conditioned to accept behaviours and norms from men that other women are fed up with.

I'm glad she's here, engaging in this conversation. Maybe one day she might realise that women too have the right to set the standard of how we want to be approached, looked at and treated. Because behaviour is not objective. If it makes anyone uncomfortable, it is wrong. And more often than not, it is the men who make women uncomfortable. Not the other way around.

And if you don't see that, you're either in denial. Or you live in an alternative reality, where i assure you we'd all happily immigrate to.

Yeah it's true in all aspects of life. I might find the behaviour of a female unacceptable and the person next to me might say oh your being too sensitive.

But are you scared of being physically hurt, raped or murdered by a female? Does their behaviour make you feel humiliated because they're only behaving that way towards you because of your sex? The power dynamics are different so it's pointless comparing male and female behaviour.

My example involved a man who was much bigger and stronger than me behaving in a threatening way. ( and them telling me I wasn't allowed to be threatened because he identifies as a lesbian and if I objected that made me a bigot .... but that's a whole other issue 🙄)

That's why I said different women have different views on what is creepy or inappropriate. Some women may get offended some wont. For example some women would label getting woolfwhistled as harrassment some dont.

Creepy and inappropriate is getting into something different. Different women have different views on what they think is creepy or inappropriate

True, but who is right?
At the weekend I was out with 2 friends. We had an encounter with a man which two of us found creepy, inappropriate and a little scary. One of my friends didn't bat an eyelid and told us there was nothing to get upset about.

But we're only having that discussion because of the way a significant number of men behave.

@Anchorage56 I'm afraid it's not about different views. It's more to do with what you've accepted.

I get the feeling that your standards on male behaviour are quite low. You've probably had to just ignore and accept things for a quiet, pleasant daily life which flows without much drama. So much so that you accept things that maybe once you would have felt uncomfortable with. We all do that. I have done that.

But nothing changes if nothing changes.

@Anchorage56 I think you need to tell us where you live, because if the men in your reality are loyal loving husbands i want to come and live there!

Where is this place where men don't take advantage of women in the bedroom or domestically? Don't need to be told what to do at home and carry an equal load of home life? Get paid the same at work as women and are happy about it? Don't cross women's boundaries and call each other out for doing so? Don't watch porn because they know its unethical? Are loyal and trustworthy? Support their women in pregnancy, chilbirth and everything that comes after? Take full responsibility of their actions? Don't objectify women based on their physical attributes, but see them as whole, separate individual beings, allowed to exist on their own right without a function?

Where is this place? Because i'm definitely not living there!

It may not be creepy or inappropriate for one woman but it may be creepy and inappropriate for the next. And given that men know this behavior is not proper perhaps they could just stop it and then we won't need to discuss how women react to inappropriate male behavior.

@Anchorage56 I think you need to tell us where you live, because if the men in your reality are loyal loving husbands i want to come and live there!

Where is this place where men don't take advantage of women in the bedroom or domestically? Don't need to be told what to do at home and carry an equal load of home life? Get paid the same at work as women and are happy about it? Don't cross women's boundaries and call each other out for doing so? Don't watch porn because they know its unethical? Are loyal and trustworthy? Support their women in pregnancy, chilbirth and everything that comes after? Take full responsibility of their actions? Don't objectify women based on their physical attributes, but see them as whole, separate individual beings, allowed to exist on their own right without a function?

Where is this place? Because i'm definitely not living there!

If a woman doesnt feel upset or angry or violated or scared or creeped out or yucky and feels absolutely no negative emotions around her interaction with a man then I would suggest it's not creepy or inappropriate for her.