All crime docs are about men killing women!

I agree about the self awareness in dark secluded places. That will never change no matter what as there will always be murderers and rapists.

MN is not the only place I've been involved in these sort of discussions and women's opinions on these things do seem to vary quite a lot. Not whether murder etc is right of course, just the whole other views of men and women in general. Woolfwhistling is definitely a 50/50 one I've noticed.

We may appear to cope better.... Because we have been raised in a patriarchal society where anything we get or achieve has been more difficult that it would be for a man doing the exact same thing.

We HAVE to just get on with it.

Everything we do, from being alone with a man in a room to walking to our car in a secluded area brings a level of self awareness that men never have to have, because they are consistently the more powerful force, unless faced with another man.

It builds resilience. We have the ability to self sooth, to manage our emotions, all because we have to. Because we would be called hormonal or hysterical if we behaved the same way as men in the workplace.

Sometimes if you have led a relatively privileged life (I don't necessarily mean financially) it can be difficult to see the layers of oppression that women in general face, in all societies.

As much as I know men are physically more dangerous its actually women that I am fearful (not the right word but cant think of the right one) of the most. Men seem simpler to me, easier to read, women though can really be vicious if they want and very clever with it.

I dont agree women are at the bottom. They certainly are in some cultures unfortunately but that's a whole other issue. I think there are so many advantages to being a woman. I think women cope so much better than men with life in general. Women are more independent. I dont let the fact that a percentage of both men and women are arseholes affect my life and make me miserable. Yes as a woman you are physically weaker which is where a certain unfairness might come in but hey maybe one day there will be pills we can take to make as just as big and strong. Then we really will be a force to be reckoned with.

You’re not wrong at all OP and I’m sick to death of it. Netflix appear to have a men murdering women fetish and it’s nothing to do with our algorithms as we haven’t really watch much true crime. They keep releasing them and it’s the same formula over and over.

You saw what I did, if only you could see the irony in your post

The first time a grown man called me sexy, I was 12. That stranger tried to rape me. His mates stood around laughing.

Another one turned up and rescued me - he punched the man, then yelled at the others. He was the decent man: in my sample, one of seven.

You're on a public forum, this is how MN works. We all talk to each other and enjoy calling out BS when we see it.

Again I don't see a woolfwhistle as the same as the whistle a man makes to call his dog. He knows the difference.

He's probably got more respect for his dog tbh.

@FeministUnderTheCatriarchy cool story, that's twice my specific question to the OP has been hijacked by others wanting to educate me.

The original question still stands for the OP

Dear god, you're trying so hard you've imploded.

You've never been catcalled, have you? Probably not, as you seem to be a bloke.

They are very loud. The whole point is to call others' attention to their sexualised opinion of women they've never even spoken to.

Again all that is very different from a lone woolfwhistle as a message of appreciation. And you must have great hearing if you heard their conversation to each other inside the van after driving past you!

My DH agrees. He is disgusted by other men and has routinely stepped away from friendship groups.

He is a 50 year old man and in his exact words (he is beside me) "most men are scum".

It may not be in the form of murder or rape, but potentially sexual harassment, cheating, coersive control, being emotionally abusive or neglectful.

I was at a dinner party with 3 other couples last year and all the men joked that if they were women they would be lesbian because trying to find a decent guy is near impossible.

A few months later one of those wives left due to finding out the husband had been having a 7 year affair whilst working away.
I also know for a fact that one of the other wives is being financially and emotionally abused. She is on her way to leaving.

So even shitty men agree that most men are awful. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I personally only know two decent men. I have been on this earth a while and I only know two men (including family and friends) who I with full faith could say are truly decent.

I know many, many, many more women who are beautiful people.

This isn't about hating men, it's about what I have experienced at the hands of men and what I see the women around me going through.

My husband has become very vocal about what women are facing and the rising violence. In no way is he offended by my opinions, as to him, they are simply fact.

Because if you are a decent, good person then why would you be offended? You can be confident in knowing it doesn't apply to you. You can have empathy for a group of people who have been systemically oppressed since the beginning of time.

Women are the most opressed group of people on earth. Yes it is to varying degrees, but in every culture, no matter how liberal vs misogynistic, women are at the bottom.

Again I don't see a woolfwhistle as the same as the whistle a man makes to call his dog. He knows the difference.

The last time I remember being 'whistled' at. It was quite a while ago now. Large building site, London, afternoon, I was heading to a meeting.

Men: [whistles, growls] Look at that! Nice bit of stuff! Show us yer tits!
Me: Show us your dick first!
Some men: Hahaha.
Other men: Ugly bitch. Mouth on that.

Recently: white van, three men, approaching from behind me.

Men: [noisy horn toots, yells, growls]
Van passes ...
Men: Fucking hell, love, you looked all right from the back!
Men to each other: She aged 20 years in 100 yards, hahahaha!

At least the van men called me "she" instead of "it".

They're all harmless, right? It's part of a woman's job to decorate any scene. She ought to appreciate random men letting everyone know they're having a passing sexual fantasy about her; it means she's doing her job, right? What else is a woman for?

I agree 'nice guys' dont woolfwhistle because they are generally quiet as mice and dont have the outward confidence.

Bollocks. I know lots of very confident, extroverted men who are nice guys and are capable of treating women with respect.

It depends if you view a woolfwhistle as problematic behaviour. I've had both men and women stop me in the street to tell me something complimentary about my appearance and whilst a whistle is agreeably a little more sexual it's still a token of appreciation.

A wolf whistle is literally a man whistling at you as though you are a dog. They aren't complimenting you. They are viewing you as an object.
A personalised compliment spoken to your face is a million miles away from a man seeing a women and whistling at her as though she was an animal.

I agree 'nice guys' dont woolfwhistle because they are generally quiet as mice and dont have the outward confidence. It depends if you view a woolfwhistle as problematic behaviour. I've had both men and women stop me in the street to tell me something complimentary about my appearance and whilst a whistle is agreeably a little more sexual it's still a token of appreciation.

I'm not here to question numbers, I'd be interested to know what the OPs family feel when she categorises them in this way

My DH knows my feelings. He agrees with me!
He will spot and challenge problematic male behaviour. He knows there is an issue that needs addressing.

Yes! It's called life. You dont know what any stranger in the street will do or not do. You dont know who is crazy or not. Who is a serial killer or not. They dont have it on their forehead.

But men who wolf whistle are already demonstrating problematic behaviour. They are not doing that because they are nice guys, nice guys don't do that.
You are saying that it's a woman's job to manage the consequences of that behaviour, if we're offended then it's our own fault.

So we know these guys already objectify women and are happy to display that behaviour in public. Therefore I will see them as a threat immediately because I don't know if they will stop at the wolf whistle.

Yes! It's called life. You dont know what any stranger in the street will do or not do. You dont know who is crazy or not. Who is a serial killer or not. They dont have it on their forehead.

@GarlicStyle not sure why you tagged me, my post was a genuine question to the OP not a request for statistics.

I'm not here to question numbers, I'd be interested to know what the OPs family feel when she categorises them in this way

So we just cross our fingers and hope for the best?

Of course! Women should always give men the benefit of the doubt, especially when they're behaving like predators. #bekind. Surely you started learning this in primary school, when that boy was always insulting or chasing you and your elders smiled "He's doing that because he likes you!"

That's a fairly good graphic but not based on anything.

Because it would turn into something more sinister wouldn't it! That's how you know! I could get into an argument with someone in the street over a car accident. They could be the type of person to just raise their voice or they could be someone who would floor me. I would know by what happens.

So we just cross our fingers and hope for the best? Might be just a wolf whistle or might turn into sexual assault - who knows?!

and a couple more (possibly) thought-provoking images for @Anchorage56 and @SeaShellsSanctuary1