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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To send an employee to a client even though she refuses because of her religion?

640 replies

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 13:30

I have a new employee in my team, she is a devout Muslim. She's been with us since January and there were no issues so far, she's getting along well with everyone and her performance was fine. I sent her an email on Friday afternoon to say that our client has now (finally) prepared all necessary documents and that she should go there and go over everything with them one day next week. She wrote me back today that she can't do that because only men work in the department and she can't spend the day alone with strange men (because of her religion).

AIBU to insist that she does her job and goes there or would that be religious discrimination? She shares an office with a male colleague and has never complained about it. She's the first devout Muslim I've ever had on my team and I honestly have no experience at all with such issues. She's the only one who has the necessary experience and isn't already scheduled elsewhere.

OP posts:
glacancalman · 15/03/2025 14:34

Well to save you the hassle, I asked chat gpt if a devout female woman could spend the day working in an all male office

@Dahlin it's a sorry state of affairs if we're relying on Chat GPT to resolve issues like this. Not be long now until people are incapable of thinking for themselves.

mudandgrass · 15/03/2025 14:33

Stirabout · 15/03/2025 14:17

They can treat men if there are no male doctors available and it’s an emergency.
This includes for operations if she is the more appropriately qualified person.

If it’s not an emergency they should seek another doctor.

Are you sure this is true? The law is clear that you cannot refuse to provide a service on the grounds of the recipient’s protected characteristic ( such as being male). Services such as women’s refuges, need special legal exemptions to do this.

dizzydizzydizzy · 15/03/2025 14:31

arcticpandas · 15/03/2025 13:56

What if you're jewish, your job has irregular hours and you refuse to work if you're scheduled during shabbat ? Seriously, I'm sick of all religions when they're used as an excuse to be a CF or commit terrorist attacks.

I used to work at a Jewish company in the 1990s. In winter, the Orthodox Jewish staff used to go home at lunchtime on Fridays and make up the time on Sundays or on other days of the week.

Ketchupbroc · 15/03/2025 14:31

It’s obviously the OP’s own business
and there is no HR
because sadly the OP is HR

MakkaPakkasCave · 15/03/2025 14:30

Doggymummar · 15/03/2025 14:25

She just needs a chaperone, crikey is it that had to facilitate in 2025? Or they can meet in public coffee shop, hotel lobby eyc

A chaperone? Is this 1825?!

Chungai · 15/03/2025 14:29

Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast · 15/03/2025 13:35

Talk to HR before you do anything. You don't want to face a constructive dismissal case, religion is a protected characteristic. You need to know what is and is not OK legally.

Edited

Absolutely, and make sure they know their stuff. I think sacking her for this if she's otherwise doing a good job would be discrimination.

I know some devout Muslims through my son's friends and the husband would never come to the door as he would be "alone" with me and the wife was uncomfortable if my husband dropped my son off at the door etc and wouldn't be allowed in the house if she was the only adult.

Is there any way round it eg could another female colleague attend, could it be held virtually on Teams, could she swap jobs with another colleague? Reasonable adjustments should be offered

MakkaPakkasCave · 15/03/2025 14:28

She’ll take you to the cleaners at tribunal as religion is a protected characteristic. She knows what she’s doing. Has she had many different jobs in the past 5 years or so? Could be a lucrative little earner for her.

Bluenotgreen · 15/03/2025 14:28

Why can’t the work be done online? Does it involve personal care?

What would have happened during lockdown?

You definitely need HR advice here.

minnienono · 15/03/2025 14:27

You can’t refuse to work with half the population!. She’s being very unreasonable as long as she was aware that in person client meetings were part of her role

Trolleysaregoodforemployment · 15/03/2025 14:27

She is a liability and going forward there will only be more issues. People like her lie by omission to get roles and expect the whole world to work round them. Take advice from HR as to how you can manage her out of the business. Definitely don't mention her religion to HR. They have to document things too. Stick the issue being that it being difficult to do that role with out doing that part of the job. I would also ask them to advise you on what you can and can't say when talking to her and how you document your conversations. This can be a minefield. Edited for clarity

dogcatkitten · 15/03/2025 14:26

Ask her how she intends to complete the project, put the onus back on her to complete her job within the constricts of her religion. This is her problem to solve.

Bromptotoo · 15/03/2025 14:26

There's some seriously crap advice here.

If you fail her probation you need to tell her why. If you avoid the extant issue do you really think she wont do 2+2=4?

OP needs advice. That's what HR, ACAS etc are there for.

Doggymummar · 15/03/2025 14:25

She just needs a chaperone, crikey is it that had to facilitate in 2025? Or they can meet in public coffee shop, hotel lobby eyc

Bleeky · 15/03/2025 14:25

Firstly, one of my favorite application & interview questions is -
Is there any reason you could not perform all the duties required for this job?

This has weeded out vegan childminder who would not prepare meat, a person who did not want to miss the 5:09 train (because husband didn’t want her to be late for dinner), a person who would not have client meetings with pharmaceutical companies because of her views etc

You would not need to have said this job requires you to meet with men, but if she cannot meet with men, then you could have not offered or if she took job, then stated it, then you have it in her application.

Given that she had not mentioned it, then confirm with her via email. Dear X, just confirming that you are not able to attend ABC meeting insert her exact words about men but not religion. Let her respond with that.

Each time there is a meeting in future, ask her to attend as you would anyone (in writing) so you have her responses in writing.

It might be that over time, she contributes as much as peers. But if she doesn’t, and she complains, you can say.
Ms T, your peer, has been able to attend & close 26 client meetings this year contributing ££££
You have been able to attend and close 7. Contributing £

Ms T is getting promoted to recognize her contribution to expanding business etc

Another view, which I cannot help but raise, is that there are men that she is discriminating against as well. Like if she won’t meet with an internal colleague …
They can claim discrimination against her.

My best advice is follow up every conversation with carefully worded email & keep.
Time will sort this out, the longer you wait, the more evidence you have that you treated her fairly and she fails to meet performance of others by her not accepting male colleagues.

As a company, your goal is to say, we treated her fairly, invited her & she declined. We cannot tell clients to exclude men as that is illegal. She has had every opportunity but turned down meetings.

Hoppinggreen · 15/03/2025 14:24

Ablondiebutagoody · 15/03/2025 14:02

I'm right though. You can't take a job and then refuse to do it on religious grounds. Two months in and she's being a PITA. Get rid.

You aren't

YourHappyJadeEagle · 15/03/2025 14:24

Can she arrange a female chaperone to accompany her?

WiddlinDiddlin · 15/03/2025 14:23

@arcticpandas typically, if you're Jewish you don't take jobs that would require you to work during Shabbat, either because the job doesn't require it or because your employer will meet that requirement.

Not sure what terrorists have to do with it.

@GelatinousDynamo would you always know in advance if sending an employee out to somewhere else, as to whether that would be an all male environment? I am struggling to see how this employee thinks she can do the job if going out to clients workplaces is a regular part of the role.

If its a very irregular thing, and you'd always know in advance then it might be appropriate to send another female employee with her, but if its regular, if you won't always know in advance, then that doesn't seem practical!

SilkSquare · 15/03/2025 14:20

Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast · 15/03/2025 13:35

Talk to HR before you do anything. You don't want to face a constructive dismissal case, religion is a protected characteristic. You need to know what is and is not OK legally.

Edited

If a religion prevents you from doing any part of the job you are employed to do and you didn't make that crystal clear-preferably in writing- before accepting the post, then you have taken the job under false pretences and should be out on your arse.

What a load of bollocks.

Tell her to do the job, show her the road or-if you are too frightened to do that (what a state of affairs) dock her wages.

What she can't do is dictate to you what she will and won't do if what you are asking her to do is reasonably part and parcel of the job. This will be testing the water, no doubt as time progresses you will be made aware of other things she can or can't do.

If it really is illegal, then you know the candidates to avoid next time you are hiring.

CautiousLurker01 · 15/03/2025 14:19

Could she have taken a junior staff member with your in a ‘companion’ capacity that would have redressed this? Could the client have been asked to come to your offices to sign without much issue?

Dare I ask if she is ‘obviously’ muslim (ie wears the burka or some other signifier of her faith) even if she didn’t raise it at interview? As others say, I think you need to speak to an employment law specialist rather than canvass here. Feel a huge amount of empathy and know I would share your frustration. I have a lot of muslim aunties and not sure this has ever been raised as an issue in a working environment by them (lawyers, etc), not least because it is not actually a fact of practicing the muslim faith that you cannot be in the presence of men. Rather it is a preference borne out of a particular interpretation/expression of the muslim faith, so not necessarily an issue you might have been able to assume even had you known she was muslim at the point of hiring her. Legal advice needed here.

MayaPinion · 15/03/2025 14:19

OldCottageGreenhouse · 15/03/2025 13:43

Imagine if it was a devout Christian employee saying they can’t attend a meeting with a gay/trans client, because of their religion. Would you be saying the same? In that case both side would have a protected characteristic. Employee citing religious reasons and a client who’s a protected characteristic

That’s different. My understanding is that Muslim women are not allowed to be alone with men they are not related to. You may not agree with that but that’s the rule. Nowhere does it say that a Christian cannot be in the company of a gay person. They’re not allowed to ‘be’ a gay person 🙄 but there’s no law against spending time with them.

OP, ask the employee what they can do to achieve the same outcome. If she is otherwise good at her job and this is a small part of it I would endeavour to find a solution - it’s hard to find good staff. If it is a big part of the job and will have a significant impact on the business, and there are no reasonable adjustments that can be made, then that’s a different conversation.

mudandgrass · 15/03/2025 14:19

TourangaLeila · 15/03/2025 14:05

How so?

It’s not 100% discrimination. It will come down to whether or not the accommodation her employer would need to make is reasonable to expect them to make. I doubt expecting two people to do a one person job would be regarded as a reasonable adjustment.

It may also come down to whether the Muslim woman is refusing to provide a service to those men due to the men’s protected characteristic ( sex). That’s quite explicitly prohibited.

LarryUnderwood · 15/03/2025 14:19

OP, if you are in a small business and don't have an HR dept or outsourced provider, call the ACAS advice line. They will give you free confidential advice by an emp law specialist, it will be risk-averse advice but will be reliable and up to date. https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

Contact us | Acas

Contact details for Acas, including phone numbers to call our helpline, training and other Acas services.

https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

ilovesooty · 15/03/2025 14:18

arcticpandas · 15/03/2025 13:56

What if you're jewish, your job has irregular hours and you refuse to work if you're scheduled during shabbat ? Seriously, I'm sick of all religions when they're used as an excuse to be a CF or commit terrorist attacks.

What have terrorist attacks got to do with the thread?

dizzydizzydizzy · 15/03/2025 14:17

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 15/03/2025 13:34

I'm all for making certain allowances, but if your religion prevents you from doing crucial parts of your job, it isn't the industry for you.

Religion is a personal choice, she needs to shape her life around that and choose work accordingly.

As many posters have said, religion is a not considered a choice in the eyes of the law. It is a protected characteristic, as is age or disability.

Stompythedinosaur · 15/03/2025 14:17

Of course you should try to accommodate your worker's needs, I'm amazed so few people think this. I have absolutely shifted rotas so Muslim women are not alone with an all male team. It's not that unusual a request at all!

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