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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To send an employee to a client even though she refuses because of her religion?

640 replies

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 13:30

I have a new employee in my team, she is a devout Muslim. She's been with us since January and there were no issues so far, she's getting along well with everyone and her performance was fine. I sent her an email on Friday afternoon to say that our client has now (finally) prepared all necessary documents and that she should go there and go over everything with them one day next week. She wrote me back today that she can't do that because only men work in the department and she can't spend the day alone with strange men (because of her religion).

AIBU to insist that she does her job and goes there or would that be religious discrimination? She shares an office with a male colleague and has never complained about it. She's the first devout Muslim I've ever had on my team and I honestly have no experience at all with such issues. She's the only one who has the necessary experience and isn't already scheduled elsewhere.

OP posts:
sometimesmovingforwards · 15/03/2025 15:30

GoodEnoughParents · 15/03/2025 14:50

How do you learn from it? Not hire Muslim women, of which the variation/and choices re practice will differ? Or ask them during interview which is a dangerous line?

People just learn. They’re very adaptable.

ilovesooty · 15/03/2025 15:29

Pinkandcake · 15/03/2025 15:28

Where do you draw the line to accommodate people?

I don’t believe religion should be a protected characteristic. It’s a belief system and it’s a choice unlike someone’s race or disability etc…

If someone wants to believe in a faith that’s fair enough but it shouldn’t impact on their ability to do their job and cause issues for other people.

Should someone who sees Sunday as a day of rest refuse to work on Sundays, as it conflicts with their religious views. Literally where do you draw the line to accommodate every religion…

The fact that you don't believe religion should be a protected characteristic is irrelevant.

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 15/03/2025 15:29

Could they come to you instead or meet somewhere where there will be females? Is it possible to swap people around to accommodate? I'd be very careful, could easily be construed as Religious discrimination. Get tge advice if a good employment law solicitor.

Pinkandcake · 15/03/2025 15:28

Where do you draw the line to accommodate people?

I don’t believe religion should be a protected characteristic. It’s a belief system and it’s a choice unlike someone’s race or disability etc…

If someone wants to believe in a faith that’s fair enough but it shouldn’t impact on their ability to do their job and cause issues for other people.

Should someone who sees Sunday as a day of rest refuse to work on Sundays, as it conflicts with their religious views. Literally where do you draw the line to accommodate every religion…

CandidHedgehog · 15/03/2025 15:26

MaryGreenhill · 15/03/2025 15:07

If you can legally, then give her the sack OP. She has only been with you 2 months and she's started to pull this stunt . God knows where it will end .
I worked with many devout Muslim ladies in the NHS and they all worked with men .

She’s not saying she can’t work with men, she’s saying she can’t work with only men in an isolated area (like an office with no other women).

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/03/2025 15:25

The law states:

  • Employers have a duty to consider employee requests related to religion or belief, but they are not obligated to grant them
  • Employers should consider reasonable accommodations to enable employees to practice their religion, but this must be balanced with the needs of the business

This is correct, @Potsofpetals, though as ever it comes down to what's considered reasonable and the attitude taken by those who seem to think it means "whatever I happen to want"

Though not a lawyer my own experience comes from employees being about 85% muslim because of the sector/geographical area. Needless to say the vast majority were fantastic people and were completely supportive of the very occasional troublemaker being managed out, so providing you're prepared to take proper advice and behave sensitively I wouldn't worry too much

We've had to deal with Muslim men who wouldn't accept female managers before

Edited to add so have I, OP; in fact one such man actually requested that a female trainer was made to leave because her presence was "offensive".
Instead he was the one who was asked to leave, and the case he tried to make got him nowhere except onto a blacklist in the industry

user902101 · 15/03/2025 15:25

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 14:39

Thank you everyone for your input (although it's hard to keep up with all the questions).

She covers her hair, but does not wear a burka or anything. She's in a technical field, so, sadly, her main points of contact on any project will usually be men. She's told me she quit her previous company because they wouldn't assign her to the prestigious jobs, and now I'm wondering if this might have been the reason why.

We do have HR, but we're not a huge company with endless resources, so would probably have to seek outside counsel.

It's not that easy to "just send her with someone else" - we get paid by the hour, and the client does not expect to have to pay for another person just because a senior I'm sending him is uncomfortable with men.

Oh dear this is very tricky.

I couldn’t do my job if I refused to work alone with males. I couldn’t have a staff member say they’d only work with mixed groups or women because I couldn’t guarantee that work would be available. If you’re in that situation/industry then you probably don’t have scope to offer her jobs that suit her religious observances. It’s not a choice you are making but the conditions of the clients you have with their male dominated client base?

I imagine you have already had to battle through a mountain of sexism to get to where you are. It’s really impressive that you’re a senior woman in a technical field. Other posters may not understand that while you’re senior you’re still in a vulnerable position. Support this woman over your clients and you lose work. Support your clients (lifeblood of the company) and you’ll be accused of discrimination. I am so sorry you’re dealing with this. It sounds really hard.

Paid by the hour means your client will go elsewhere if this employee has pay extra for a chaperone for jobs with men.

And if you cover the cost of the chaperone I assume her jobs will generate zero profit?

So far has she been able to fulfill the contracts and also keep within the agreed fees? (Without a chaperone)

As others have said I think you’ll need to pay for legal advice and tread carefully.

You might also consider calling her previous employer ostensibly for a reference but you could ask about her saying they didn’t give her premium projects - did they agree with that statement?

It’s such a shame - this woman’s chosen a career which isn’t compatible with her beliefs and probably spent a lot of time and money getting there. She’s going to be really upset when this reality hits home. The premium jobs in a technical industry will involve men. What was she thinking?

mudandgrass · 15/03/2025 15:21

Kahless · 15/03/2025 15:17

our client has now (finally) prepared all necessary documents and that she should go there and go over everything with them one day next week. She wrote me back today that she can't do that because only men work in the department

Unlikely to be carewok with documentation and dept?

OP has already said it’s a tech field.

Kahless · 15/03/2025 15:17

Glassesandhat · 15/03/2025 13:37

Is it care work ? She absolutely can refuse if so and you need to accommodate that.

our client has now (finally) prepared all necessary documents and that she should go there and go over everything with them one day next week. She wrote me back today that she can't do that because only men work in the department

Unlikely to be carewok with documentation and dept?

FOJN · 15/03/2025 15:17

TourangaLeila · 15/03/2025 14:04

Being vegetarian is not the same thing.

Vegetariamism is not protected under law.

The Equality Act protects people from discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief. There are certain criteria "philosophical belief" must meet to be protected but the it does not have to be religious in nature to be protected by law. I have seen ethical veganism used as an example of this.

www.acas.org.uk/religion-or-belief-discrimination#:~:text=Religion%20or%20belief%20is%20one,in%20any%20area%20of%20work.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 15/03/2025 15:17

Hmm, not sure there is much you can do other than support her.
It's a learning curve.
Make sure that you cover this situation with future interviewees.

Trolleysaregoodforemployment · 15/03/2025 15:16

Ketchupbroc · 15/03/2025 14:53

Yes I agree

It was just the idea the OP didn’t think that it could be for any other reason than gender that an “old boys club” would discriminate

I think it healthy she didn't make stereotyped assumptions about the employee.

Bailamosse · 15/03/2025 15:15

Viviennemary · 15/03/2025 15:09

Send somebody else. Then just fail her after probation. Easiest way.

Edited

This.

Trolleysaregoodforemployment · 15/03/2025 15:14

cutieee · 15/03/2025 15:08

as an employee i would expect my employer to not discriminate my religious beliefs, tbh there shouldn’t be a question about it. it’s well known that muslim women wouldn’t go into a male dominated space (regardless of some muslim women that don’t adhere to this). i don’t believe you’ve exhausted all the options to accommodate her beliefs, it’s quite disappointing really. even if she does go you’ll be making them quite uncomfortable…

It's disappointing that you think religion should override gender equality and reasonable societal norms. The employee is a religious grifter.

ChilliLips · 15/03/2025 15:12

We've had to deal with Muslim men who wouldn't accept female managers before

Good grief

SerendipityJane · 15/03/2025 15:11

Gawd help us if there are any religions that prohibit work ....

Trolleysaregoodforemployment · 15/03/2025 15:11

mugglewump · 15/03/2025 14:54

Several posts declaring that if she didn't specify this in interview, then you don't need to accommodate her requirements. Surely, by turning up to a job interview in modest, Muslim appropriate dress (no ankles, wrists, shoulders or collar bone showing) and her hair covered, you should know her religious requirements? She was clearly the best candidate forthe job or you would not have employed her, so accommodate her needs.

She was the best candidate to a job, not 75% of it. The minute she only wanted to do 75% then she is not the best person for the job. Gender equality overrides religion.

Small companies can be crippled by unreasonable requests like this. I personally would take umbrage with any employer who expected me to cover for a colleague on these grounds.

Ketchupbroc · 15/03/2025 15:10

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 15:09

She shares her office with a male colleague and has no problems shaking hands with men... So this sort of came out of nowhere. Might be because that office has a glass wall so they're not technically alone? I have no idea, just guessing here.

We're not a huge company, so this is all a bit new to me. We've had to deal with Muslim men who wouldn't accept female managers before, but this is more complicated than that.

But this thread has certainly helped me to get it out of my system and get some perspective, so thank you everyone.

is she alone with this man in the office?

Ketchupbroc · 15/03/2025 15:10

Op

do you value her? Would her leaving be a loss?

GelatinousDynamo · 15/03/2025 15:09

Crocmush · 15/03/2025 15:00

I would not assume that because someone at interview wore hijab and dressed conservatively that they could not visit an office that only employed men, or be alone in a room with a man. In fact, thinking of the last colleague I had who was a practicing Muslim she would often be alone in the office with a male colleague.

She shares her office with a male colleague and has no problems shaking hands with men... So this sort of came out of nowhere. Might be because that office has a glass wall so they're not technically alone? I have no idea, just guessing here.

We're not a huge company, so this is all a bit new to me. We've had to deal with Muslim men who wouldn't accept female managers before, but this is more complicated than that.

But this thread has certainly helped me to get it out of my system and get some perspective, so thank you everyone.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 15/03/2025 15:09

Send somebody else. Then just fail her after probation. Easiest way.

WiddlinDiddlin · 15/03/2025 15:08

mugglewump · 15/03/2025 14:54

Several posts declaring that if she didn't specify this in interview, then you don't need to accommodate her requirements. Surely, by turning up to a job interview in modest, Muslim appropriate dress (no ankles, wrists, shoulders or collar bone showing) and her hair covered, you should know her religious requirements? She was clearly the best candidate forthe job or you would not have employed her, so accommodate her needs.

How on earth is the OP supposed to understand one persons very strict interpretation of a religion, when someone else of the same religion could have a totally different interpretation?

It is for the employee to make it clear what they can/cannot do and whether they can actually meet the job description, not for the OP to assume.

cutieee · 15/03/2025 15:08

as an employee i would expect my employer to not discriminate my religious beliefs, tbh there shouldn’t be a question about it. it’s well known that muslim women wouldn’t go into a male dominated space (regardless of some muslim women that don’t adhere to this). i don’t believe you’ve exhausted all the options to accommodate her beliefs, it’s quite disappointing really. even if she does go you’ll be making them quite uncomfortable…

MaryGreenhill · 15/03/2025 15:07

If you can legally, then give her the sack OP. She has only been with you 2 months and she's started to pull this stunt . God knows where it will end .
I worked with many devout Muslim ladies in the NHS and they all worked with men .

ChilliLips · 15/03/2025 15:07

Terrribletwos · 15/03/2025 14:40

For sexist reasons? What do you mean?

Because a religious rule that thinks any woman who sits next to a man will somehow be disgraced is sexist and regressive?