A religion one here -aibu to find my work colleagues comments offensive

Completely disagree. The shared values of a community are not beliefs. To extend your logic if child abuse is objectively wrong for "God" why for the first 1900 years post Jesus were girls allowed to marry at 12? Did everyone who did this end up in hell for abusing the children, how do we know that "God" is happy with 16 being the age of consent maybe "God" thinks it should be 25 and in the future we will collectively agree that is better just like we collectively agreed that 12 was too young to marry. Shared values set out in law are very different to religious beliefs.

Thou shall not kill is basic. Breach that and your going to hell regardless of how much you repent. Personally not a believer, but I do think prison should be made to be like hell on earth for these people.

I think it is ok for her to have an opinion and for you to disagree with that opinion. We don’t all think the same way and that’s fine. It’s not like you were personally impacted by the case and she wasn’t even telling you how to feel.

I love true crime podcasts and quite a few people forgive their family members killers. It’s healing for them to let go of the hate. I don’t know what sta meant by we don’t know the full story - maybe she is suggesting that he had a mental health problem rather than victim blaming.

So she can forgive the unrepentant murderer but can't forgive the bereaved father and widower for hating? Weird. CoI: Christian.

Such lazy rhetoric 💤 😴

@WTFFML

Anyone who speaks about religion as fact, talks about the judgement of their ‘god figure’ as if it’s a real thing which affects everyone, is really offensive.

Wouldn’t you have to extend this to all belief, to be consistent?

If you speak of your ethics as fact (“child abuse is wrong”) as if it affects everyone (“always”), isn’t that also really offensive?

If not, what’s the difference? (It can’t be that you just know your ethics are right. That’s a claim many religious people would also sincerely claim).

I think he should have got the death penalty and I would have told her that.

How dare who?

She’s entitled to her opinion and forgiveness is a very personal thing. I feel the same way as you- I couldn’t forgive someone who murdered 3 of the people I love most in the world. And brutally raped one of them.

I would be so done with anyone who uttered the words “we don’t know what the girlfriend did“. We do know. She dumped his abusive arse and then he raped her and murdered her and her mum and her sister I believe. But there is virtually nothing she could have done to deserve what happened to those 3 women.

I voted YANBU but it was finely balanced.

YANBU because offence is personal and you can’t really be said to be unreasonable for having your reaction. Her religiously-grounded viewpoint doesn’t become reasonable (or not) just because it’s religiously well-grounded (or not).

But I almost went for YABU because it sounds to me like she is saying ‘judge not’ and ‘forgive’. These are foundational Christian beliefs and presumably you’ve heard them a lot. What did you think it meant, vibes? I’m an atheist, but the teaching isn’t “judge not, unless they’re really bad. Forgive when it’s an easy case”.

It's possibly that you didn't read the full post - but I could be wrong. The OP is not offended because the colleague holds Christian views of forgiveness. She is offended because the colleague suggested the murder victims may have deserved or in some way courted their horrific fate. She apparently said "We don’t know the full story. We don’t know what the killer's girlfriend did". This implies that the murderer had some justification for raping, torturing and finally killing his victims (women aged 25, 28 and 61). They were all bound with wire with the younger women shot by crossbow and the 61 year old subjected to a frenzied knife attack. Now, I don't know about you but I can see no justification this side of hell for such an atrocity. For what it's worth there is no implication that any of these women did anything even remotely "wrong" other than falling prey to a sadistic, cowardly and psychopathic man with a history of violence. So in short I would think any right minded person would find her comments off the scale offensive.

So this woman’s (mistaken, I think) view of Christian theology is that god might ‘forgive’ this foul murderer for the murder, but damn the victims’ father if he couldn’t forgive?

It’s so weird to me, all these posters feeling offended by the utterings of a random woman. How is that even possible? I k ow that there are people in the world who believe that public lashings, or execution by lethal injection, or open-ended detention without charge are reasonable and legal. Do I find all these things unconscionable and contrary to basic human rights? Yes. Am I offended by these things? No! How can I be? They’re not happening to me, nobody is putting them on me. They’re just people believing different things to me.

I really don’t get this “offended” thing. Moreover, what does it matter if someone is offended by something? What difference does that feeling (of being offended) make to anything?

Give her a wide berth. Anyone who thinks there is a reason to do what the killer did - basically torture and kill, is not right in the head, regardless of religious belief.

Wow. What an ignorant post.

Yes, some people are nutters and some of them express that through cultural narratives that happen to be religious but globally, people of all faiths are responsible for a significant amount of the world’s charitable, pastoral and aid work. It’s their faith in action. What do you do to make the world a better place?

To the op I would say that as a Christian I believe forgiveness can only be given by the injured party. We cannot forgive a murderer. Only the victim’s family can do that. And lots do…as the pp said, sometimes letting go of hate is a cathartic way to honour the life of a loved one rather than living with anger and bitterness. This is deeply personal though, and can sometimes take a lifetime.

We also know that people who murder often have had fucked up lives. Watch any documentary about prisoners and death row inmates, they all have stories of horrendous child abuse and neglect. I’m not saying that that absolves them of their crimes, but society has a responsibility to ensure children are not abused into warped and damaged adults.

The work colleague was probably trying to see a bigger picture and be compassionate in that. My advice would be instead of getting ‘offended’ by other people’s opinions, seek to understand them.

I don’t remember anything in the bible about victim blaming. That’s not her religion, that’s her prejudice talking. If she were just a friend, fine, but it’s not a suitable topic for a workplace. Survivors of SA and DV shouldn’t have to potentially listen to that when they are at work.

I’d probably have replied “oh, that’s a different way of seeing it, but I expect he’ll have the shit kicked out of him in prison on a daily basis, which would be God’s will, right?”

And then I’d not ever speak of religion with her again.

Why do you think that?

I disagree, I’m very much not easily offended but to say that John Hunt won’t be forgiven by god unless he forgives the man who murdered his wife and two of his daughters is hugely offensive, as is ‘we don’t know the full story’.

Anyone who speaks about religion as fact, talks about the judgement of their ‘god figure’ as if it’s a real thing which affects everyone, is really offensive. How dare you makes such assumptions and judgements, especially when those beliefs are preached by an organisation with ongoing proven practice of condoning sexual abuse and protecting abusers in the name of that god.

I agree. Rotting in jail for life is what he deserves and I would never forgive. I would find her comments offensive and totally inappropriate.

She's trying to make excuses for the killer and put the blame on the victim. That's offensive and just shows how religion can distort people's reasoning.

Like many religious people, she’s narrow minded and confused.

I’d not give her silly comments another thought.

I’m with you OP - even though I am a believer - I really really cannot understand why anyone on this earth chooses to kill or rape - I do not care if there is a “reason” it is wrong and even the Bible acknowledges that it’s wrong.

Like others have said in this case just agree to disagree.

I believe in forgiveness (as bloody difficult as it is to do sometimes) I think it’s important to forgive for your own sake, so that you don’t fester in bitterness, and I really really admire those that have lost loved ones through brutal crimes who then turn the pain into some kind of mission to help others - that really takes bravery and courage and something in you has to see a bigger picture.

Forgiven - but never forgotten I guess.

I think with this crime the evidence is too obvious to ignore. In other circumstances there are 2 sides to a story.

As someone who was deeply religious for a decade, in my opinion her religion plays a part in her comments here; Christianity can still be misogynistic in my experience hence why she is judging the female victims for possibly provoking the perpetrator. I try and keep religious people out of my life if I see misogyny in them, unfortunately it's just part of it.

I’m a practicing catholic and I firmly believe that there are somethings that are so terrible that they should not be forgiven. I kind of think that to do so lessons the severity of what they’ve done in some way. If that makes sense. “You’ve killed my entire family in a brutal way” but it’s ok, I forgive you. I don’t get it.