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Original poster

Council housing priority - council advising to wait until Ballifs turn up

168 replies

Blueotter22 · 14/03/2025 17:54

Hi All,

Im posting here for traffic really to see if anyone else has experienced this or has been able to challenge it. I’m at a loss on how I can support my Mum with this.

My mum has advanced Alzheimer’s (early onset) and is cared for 24/7 by my SIL & Brother. My angel SIL quit her job (as a care home worker) to care for my Mam full time, she does everything for her (personal care, feeding, medication, appointments etc). My SIL & Brother have rented a house from SIL’s brother for a number of years, rent is reasonable and they’ve managed just about but now her brother is moving back home from overseas and would like his house back. SIL has her heart set on a council house because of their low income they will struggle with the private rent but also the area they live is typically flats to rent which wouldn’t be suitable for Mums mobility needs. They would also like the security that having a council house brings as they have a pet and want the stability of not having to move again.
Which is understandable, as they have no savings, wouldn’t really ever be in a position to buy and brother works a low paid job which is a struggle to provide for 3 adults.

Mum has been rejected for benefits due to a super complicated and I think unfair situation, she was basically living in America with her husband when she became unwell and was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. We (& she) wanted her to come back to the UK but husband insisted they were staying in America as he worked there, he wasn’t aware of how Alzheimer’s disease progresses and sadly she deteriorated quite quickly during Covid and he couldn’t travel to bring her home. He admitted he could no longer care for her and brought her back to the UK and basically promised he would sell up in America and come back to help care for her, but yeah..he didn’t. He’s stayed there and now my Mum hasn’t been able to access any financial support because technically she’s been out of the country. The rules are the rules so it’s just something we’ve had to accept. My SIL therefore hasn’t even had any carers allowance or support.

So the issue is, the council are refusing to acknowledge that my Mum exists basically because she doesn’t have benefits. Despite turning up to the house unannounced and witnessing how unwell she is. The housing officer has told my SIL that they won’t be considered a priority until she is taken to court and ballifs attend the property.

SIL brother has served them a section 21 and said they have until X date to leave, but obviously he doesn’t want to take them to court or get the ballifs. It will cost so much! I just think it’s absolutely crazy that this is the actual advice given? Pay court fees, pay ballifs just to prove you need housing?
Also, they said they’ll likely find them temporary accommodation first before they are able to bid. I just don’t see how this is reasonable for a woman who is highly distressed a lot of the time anyway, can’t manage stairs, needs constant supervision and I’m just so overwhelmed trying to understand how I can help them.

I can’t believe this is actually a thing? Part of me was thinking my SIL might have got the wrong end of the stick but she is adamant that is the advice from the housing officer?! 😳

I am going to write to their MP and I’ve googled so much about this but has anyone experienced a similar situation and is there some kind of legislation or something I can use to write to the council?

OP posts:
Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 15:11

Namechangetry · 15/03/2025 15:09

OP it takes months between applying for PIP to being awarded. You're not being told the truth here one way or the other.

We had originally applied for PIP a while back and was refused. So she must have reapplied and kept it quiet and recently told me when she said the council needed proof of benefits and she was awaiting an outcome.

OP posts:
Namechangetry · 15/03/2025 15:09

OP it takes months between applying for PIP to being awarded. You're not being told the truth here one way or the other.

Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 15:09

Also @Namechangetry before she cared for my Mam she worked long shifts at a care home where she had to travel on public transport 1.5hrs there and back. She hated it, she complained about feeling depressed and wishing she could quit her job. So when the opportunity came up and husband said he would pay her to stay at home and care for Mam she wanted to do that, it was her original idea. But to be fair husband said it would only be temporary for 6 months until he was able to return to UK and that they would all live together and care for her. Once he had left her he obviously changed his mind and is now living his American lifestyle in his big huge house and seeing new women, going to disneyworld every other week with his Disney friends, got a new job, living his life. So the situation wasn’t what anyone really expected.

OP posts:
WellsAndThistles · 15/03/2025 15:05

Refer Mum to Social Work, they will help her get housed in an appropriate property.

Also, reading between the lines, it kind of sounds like sister is trying to take advantage of Mum's predicament to bagsy herself a nice family size council house for life, that isn't going to happen, she will have to either house herself or accept the one bedroom flat.

Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 15:02

Miley1967 · 15/03/2025 14:45

The benefits situation makes no sense. If she has been back in the UK for two years she can claim PIP ( if she is under pension age ) or Attendance Allowance if over. Depending on her age she could also claim Universal credit or Pension credit if she's state pension age. She just needs to show that she is habitually resident here which should not be a problem. I assume she is a british citizen? Once she has these benefits coming in which will likely be a substantial amount then SIL could claim carers allowance also and they would likely have enough to private rent.

I have been told now (just today) that yes she has been awarded full PIP, carers allowance etc. So through my sums, with all of their benefits and other sources of income combined they should be getting about 4.5-5k a month shortly when it all goes through. So yes, they can afford to privately rent. But SIL doesn’t want to privately rent, she wants a council house she can stay in forever.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 14:58

I don’t think she’s a horrible person, I don’t think she has malicious intentions with the way she is. I think she is probably taking advantage of the situation to gain as much as she can from it. She struggles with her own MH at times and is neurodivergent so I think she becomes quite fixated on it being her way or no way. There’s aspects of the care that I don’t always agree with, I don’t think it’s abusive and I guess I’m not in a position to really understand what “good” care should look like. I’m in awe of how she can dye my Mams hair (my Mam was always very proud of having her hair a certain colour), she shaves her legs and plucks her beard hairs - all things that are really important to my Mams dignity and what she always said she wanted. I couldn’t do that, I struggle to change her pads on my own and get punched in the head and called a fat pig when I’m trying to dress her. So I do think she is good at caring for her.

I perhaps wish she would take her outside more as they stay in the house all day every day, I feel sorry that my Mam paces her bedroom for hours each day with not a lot of stimulation. But I darent say she should do more because she does all of the care on her own as my brother works night shifts.

I have tried to help them both with budgeting and being more careful with their finances but that gets shut down quickly. Maybe I’m a bit judgy when I’m at their house and see piles of Amazon delivery boxes being ordered, everything is top brands, ordering takeaways every day. They often leave piles of rubbish in the yard and because they don’t drive I come up and do a tip run for them, the amount of just STUFF that they are buying. Unnecessary stuff! But then telling me that they are behind with their water and electricity bills. Nobody can feel like we can challenge them on it, my sister says yeah well Blueotter if you were stuck in the house caring for Mam all day you would buy stuff to make you happy. So I can’t really say anything, I just have to do this fine balance of being supportive and keeping my mouth shut.

OP posts:
ArtTheClown · 15/03/2025 14:58

You need urgent legal advice, and you'll probably need to engage a lawyer in the US state that the husband resides in. She will need to divorce him and get her assets. She sounds too far along in her illness to give anyone POA though so it's really all a bit of a mess, but the husband has behaved despicably.

Miley1967 · 15/03/2025 14:45

The benefits situation makes no sense. If she has been back in the UK for two years she can claim PIP ( if she is under pension age ) or Attendance Allowance if over. Depending on her age she could also claim Universal credit or Pension credit if she's state pension age. She just needs to show that she is habitually resident here which should not be a problem. I assume she is a british citizen? Once she has these benefits coming in which will likely be a substantial amount then SIL could claim carers allowance also and they would likely have enough to private rent.

Namechangetry · 15/03/2025 14:42

So SIL at best is using your DM as a means to control you - your a/l, your guilt, making access to DM hard, using you financially; or worse she is financially exploiting DM by getting more money from the husband than you know about; or worse still is caring for her in such a way that she doesn't want professional carers to see how your DM is and raise concerns.

I know you've said SIL cares for your DM brilliantly but you're an amateur, would professionals pick up on stuff we wouldn't? It's quite a thing to give up your job and provide 24/7 care for a non relative with a challenging illness. What's SIL getting out of this deal to balance out the clearly very tough job of caring for someone with dementia?

MargaretThursday · 15/03/2025 14:42

Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 14:27

@MargaretThursday she didn’t technically stop me, she didn’t say I couldn’t go. She just refused to talk to me and then my brother wasn’t talking to me either. So I felt too uncomfortable to go up, as I would have had to stay in their house as it’s 200 miles away. I probably should have just gone up and stayed in an Airbnb or something but at the time I was really struggling with it all and so I just avoided it.

Listen, you are making excuses for her, and that's totally understandable. But I think you do need to consider that her behaviour towards you is certainly at best guilt tripping and financially grasping.
In which case how's she behaving with your dm, and possibly with her husband too.

(I'm reminded of a friend who occasionally borrowed money. She always paid me back for some reason. When she moved away we discovered she had "borrowed" a lot of money from many mutual friends, all of whom thought they were the only one and were the only one she could lean on. She hadn't paid most of them back and owed between them many £1000s. But she had the same "oh I'm really struggling, can you just lend me..." attitude and would get upset if the person didn't have the money. I wonder when you think she's desperately asking you, she's also asked the husband and other relatives and got money from all of you)

How do you know that her care is excellent when she's not being watched, for example? Sil tells you?
Your dm may not be in a position where she can say - my gran could tell a wonderful tale of what she'd done yesterday sounded very plausible. Only thing was she hadn't done anything like what she said she'd done because the place had closed down 20 years previously etc.

This stood out:
She says it’s because she doesn’t trust that others would care for Mam like we do, due to her previous experience of working in a care home and witnessing care staff or agency workers not treating residents nice.
I'd be concerned that the actual reason is she knows that if someone who knows what they're talking about comes in, then they're going to be raising serious questions.

You need to speak to Citizens' Advice, and possibly Help the Aged or Adult Social care.

TwoBlueFish · 15/03/2025 14:41

You need legal advice on behalf of your mum to see if she can force the sale of the marital home and release her funds. How long has she been back in the UK? She needs to have been in the UK for 2 out of the last 3 years in order to apply for PIP.

chances of getting a council house are slim, I’d really be putting as much effort as possible into finding a private rental however with 3 adults and only one person working they will probably struggle with affordability. Could the brother who owns their house possibly live in rented accommodation just until your mum can qualify for disability benefits?

Age UK or CAB should be able to offer some advice.

Soootired23 · 15/03/2025 14:37

The more you post about your SIL the more she sounds like a horrible person

gotthearse · 15/03/2025 14:36

FortyElephants · 14/03/2025 18:08

Your brother and sister in law might have their heart set on a council house but they aren't likely to get one for a decade or more, even if they do get housed by the council. There is an extraordinary shortage of council property. That's why they only house people who are actually being evicted on that day, not people whose landlords want the property back. Can't you see why that would be the case?
It's unfortunate that your mum can't access support here, but if you're thinking that DB and SIL will be housed along with your mum it's by no means assured. Emergency and temporary accommodation is pretty poor, could be a shared hotel room with no cooking facilities.
Badically your DB, SIL and her brother need to come up with a better plan. Can you (between you as a family) financially help your DB and SIL afford a private rental? Can the brother wait until they find somewhere? I find it very difficult to understand why your SIL has given up her job to care for a woman who isn't her mum. She's screwed herself financially and in terms of access to decent housing by doing that.
Does anyone have power of attorney for your mum? Have you had legal advice regarding accessing her assets from her marriage in the states?

It absolutely is not 10 years everywhere. The wait time will vary wildly depending on where you live.

Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 14:27

@MargaretThursday she didn’t technically stop me, she didn’t say I couldn’t go. She just refused to talk to me and then my brother wasn’t talking to me either. So I felt too uncomfortable to go up, as I would have had to stay in their house as it’s 200 miles away. I probably should have just gone up and stayed in an Airbnb or something but at the time I was really struggling with it all and so I just avoided it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 14:25

@Namechangetry she has always refused to allow paid carers into the house or care home respite. She says it’s because she doesn’t trust that others would care for Mam like we do, due to her previous experience of working in a care home and witnessing care staff or agency workers not treating residents nice. We’ve tried to convince her and said yes but not all carers are like that, you weren’t like that?! But she just flat out refuses and then says it’s either we come and care for her or she won’t have a break. So we feel like we can’t say no. But then all of our AL is taken up by visiting, and so it feels really selfish to say actually I need some AL so I can have a break from work and take my son on holiday because then the comments come “oh must be nice to have a day off, never get a day off here”. She’ll also regularly post updates that we feel really guilty about like how my Mam has kept her awake all night, or how she can’t go out or spend time with her friends or family because she doesn’t have any help. Then there’s the visiting, always being asked when I’m next visiting and when I go up they’ve “not done a shop” so I’m stopping off and buying food and bringing things that my Mam needs. Which I don’t mind doing but it’s costing me £150 a visit or thereabouts. They seem to think I’ve got it easy as I have my own house and a decent job, but I’m a single parent and I don’t have the luxury of holidays or always getting what I want. Sorry I’m just whinging now but I don’t really have anyone to talk to about this dynamic who gets it.

OP posts:
MargaretThursday · 15/03/2025 14:25

Namechangetry · 15/03/2025 14:14

The issue was she refused to allow husband to pay for a care home respite placement, she was insistent that myself and my sister had to come to her house to provide the care

OP that puts a bit of a different slant on things. Why exactly didn't she want your DM to go to a care home for respite? Was she worried that DM would do well there and you'd all want her to stay on, and SIL'd lose her income source/ source of leverage over you and your family? We she worried the care home would find deficiencies in the care your DM has had? Is she actually charging the husband more than you know about and if he paid a care home bill he'd see it was cheaper?

I'm not trying to scare you as clearly you've got more than enough on your plate but that's a red flag to me.

I agree.

The more you post about your SIL, the more red flags are waving.

Ask yourself. If she really was doing it entirely out of love for your mum, would she really have stopped you from coming round for 2 months?

Namechangetry · 15/03/2025 14:14

The issue was she refused to allow husband to pay for a care home respite placement, she was insistent that myself and my sister had to come to her house to provide the care

OP that puts a bit of a different slant on things. Why exactly didn't she want your DM to go to a care home for respite? Was she worried that DM would do well there and you'd all want her to stay on, and SIL'd lose her income source/ source of leverage over you and your family? We she worried the care home would find deficiencies in the care your DM has had? Is she actually charging the husband more than you know about and if he paid a care home bill he'd see it was cheaper?

I'm not trying to scare you as clearly you've got more than enough on your plate but that's a red flag to me.

Original poster
Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 14:01

Thank you, yes I have some time off work soon so I’ll make some calls and see if I can get some legal advice or consultation with a specialist about the deputyship etc.

SIL & brother are very entitled, and at times I feel like we’re all a bit scared and bend over backwards to meet SILs requests. There was a big issue last year where she said they needed a 2 week holiday, which of course they should have respite as it’s a 24/7 job caring for Mam. The issue was she refused to allow husband to pay for a care home respite placement, she was insistent that myself and my sister had to come to her house to provide the care which was really tricky for us as I work full time and didn’t have enough AL and my sister had just started a new job without much flexibility. Then she insisted they wanted to go to Florida for 2 weeks, husband actually offered them a one week accommodation in Florida but she said it was pointless going just for one week. We all tried to say how about one week and then that’s manageable for our AL and then have another week later in the year. That wasn’t good enough so then it caused a big drama and she left the family chat and so we are always feeling like we’re walking on eggshells making sure she’s happy because she does such a great job at caring for our Mam. Then there was a situation where she had asked to use my credit card because she needed food and husband had already paid for other expenses so she couldn’t ask him, so I agreed to let her use my credit card…then the requests kept coming, wanting to buy Christmas presents for other people using my pay in 3 card. I felt like I couldn’t say no because I felt sorry for her, so when she asked to use it again I said no and then that caused a big fall out and I basically wasn’t welcome to see my Mam for about 3 months. So it’s a really sticky balance of trying to keep her happy and then the whole husband and their joint assets situation. It’s a mess, and I do sometimes think if she was in a nice care home maybe life would be easier and I could just go up and see her whenever I can. But you read these horror stories about care homes and neglect don’t you, and so I just become this middle person where she will offload to me, call me crying about their housing situation and I feel completely stuck.

OP posts:
Turmerictolly · 15/03/2025 13:24

Also can you afford to get legal advice regarding the situation with your mums husband and the house? He is depriving her of her assets. It will be too late to get power of attorney in the Uk now she has an advanced dementia diagnosis but social services may have the power to get a charge put on her house in the US if she needs care.

Turmerictolly · 15/03/2025 13:15

In our Borough, there is a Nil Recourse to public funds social work team. I wonder if it might be worth making contact with them in your area regarding your mums situation. There is a budget within those teams to pay for care homes if emergency placements are needed. This might be a better option for your mum rather than the upheaval of being homeless, in temp in a hotel etc. It might be necessary as it’ll be very difficult to find two bedroomed council accommodation, particularly as your mum will not be eligible for council accommodation (although she could be put on the application as a household member only). All areas are different so they may be in an area where the pressure on council housing is not so acute but most city areas have long council housing waiting lists now.

I would advise your brother/SIL to start making enquiries with social services to get the ball rolling. If they can help your mum, then it will be easier for your SIL /brother to find accommodation just for themselves privately or go on the council list for a one bedroomed flat.

Flopsythebunny · 15/03/2025 13:13

carly2803 · 14/03/2025 20:38

you need legal advice and fast

she needs to divorce him asap and you all need to stop being nice and worried about upsetting people
are you ever actually going to back to the states?

once your mother passes, the money will be gone. Would she really have wanted that? or actually had kids that stood up for what would have been rightly passed down 4x ways. Not one.

She can't divorce him. She doesn't have capacity.

Namechangetry · 15/03/2025 13:12

Your DB and SIL are very entitled aren't they? They refuse to private rent or to have a house bought in your DMs name - they're in no position to be refusing anything!

They might also come unstuck if SIL applies for UC for your DM, contrary to popular belief the government doesn't hand UC out like Smarties and will look into the finances. PIP isn't means tested but UC is and I think the payments from the husband will be scrutinised - child maintenance is disregarded for UC but I've no idea if 'adult maintenance' is, likely not, plus there's the complications of your DM having assets abroad and not having been in the UK the whole time. They might take a dim view of what could look like a wealthy overseas family dumping an unwell relative in the UK and expecting the UK state to fund, house and care for her while they sit on $$.

If they want you to drop it could you make a deal with them? Agree to drop the idea of pursuing the finances (for now) if they can come up with concrete evidence from the local authority of how they will be housed once evicted including your DM? Not just 'well Joan got a nice new council house so we will too' but a housing officer actually saying 'x will happen, y won't happen'?

'Let's just see what happens' is a crazy plan when your DM is so vulnerable. These people are not acting like grown ups.

whowhatwerewhy · 15/03/2025 13:01

You have done all you can in trying to advise them . All you can do is sit back and see how it plays out.

Lippit · 15/03/2025 12:40

@Blueotter22 as you are happy with the care provided to your mum by your sil then I would totally understand why you might stand back and wait and see….you have pointed out the important considerations to them all and it doesn’t sound like they are swayed at all by this, so personally I would step back.

Quinlan · 15/03/2025 12:31

Blueotter22 · 15/03/2025 12:25

How do I do that?

do you mean just incase legally someone finds it and works out who I am/ she is?

Show quote history

There are always posters saying threads should be deleted for some legal reason or other, when there really is no issue. Even if someone recognised you, there is nothing here that is private or could be used against you. Really. Don’t worry. If you want it sorted then ask mumsnet but don’t let yourself get worried by some paranoid poster. You’ve shared nothing that’s going to get you into any issues.