White people moving to colonized countries is kind of gross

What does any of that have to do with you?

Why do you feel uncomfortable?

Do you usually feel responsible for the actions of others?

Black people's role in the slave trade is rarely mentioned.

It actually comes down to money not race. And that's the problem this type of guilt tripping race theory runs into because there's so many white people who buy into it but don't want to address the economic part of the debate. That's why they get really confused when black and Hispanic people like Trump. It doesn't compute.

Humans become slaves because another human has power over them and can exploit them for financial gain. This is not dependent on race. Race can be a factor in terms of power but ultimately it comes down to money and means.

The white slavers were happy to do business with the black slavers because it made good business sense to them. Understand this and other things make more sense, particularly in a contemporary context. It also explains why there are loud conversations about black American slavery of the past but not modern Uyghur slavery in China.

Am I exploiting people and imposing on them or am I contributing and integrating to the community I am becoming a part of by fully making efforts to understand the local sensitivities, cultures and histories are more appropriate conversations to have. This includes when you do business with somewhere or visit somewhere - not just move there.

Possibly the most extreme and ridiculous virtue signalling I've seen

I moved to Canada and do not think like that at all towards indigenous First Nations

In fact I'd say on the whole attitudes among first generation immigrants such as myself are a lot more genuinely outraged and progressive then Canadians whose family has been there for generations. And that the experience made myself as a British person far more aware, real life aware not book aware, of what Britain and other European colonial powers did to the world.

My white ancestors went on strike against slavery. Not all white people are to blame and most did not benefit from slavery - only those at the top. What about the black slavers in Africa. Should their descendents leave the country? What utter twaddle!

You think the Scandinavian countries will worry about raping and pillaging the UK when they stole our country through invasion and kept it, Romans the same, the French and so on. Slaves were then transported back to home countries, or kept in this country.

Do you think the French and Dutch colonisation means they feel the same as you? I doubt it

its history, take a look at it for the last 1000 years, slavery as we knew it stopped hundreds of years ago (in the main, you still get enforced slavery of people even in this country), although it was only in the last century that segregation stopped

Countries have apologised it happened and lessons learnt
However you are entitled to feel how you do, but others don’t, so you just need to accept that and move on

I am me and I am not and will never accept the blame for the actions of another persons or their wrong doings committed before I even existed. I will however treat all people with compassion and kindness regardless of their origin/race or background while I am alive.

I don't get how you've left out the USA and Canada.

In that spirit, and as a thought experiment, how would you feel about moving to

a) Belfast
b) Gibraltar
c) Zimbabwe?

And there are plenty of white people whose countries were colonised too.
So they were colonised, not colonisers.

There are plenty of white people from countries that didn't colonise anywhere .... Should we also not emigrate because we are white?

Well aren’t you sooooo righteous and good.

Oh wait - no one cares

Unless you object to black people being in “white” countries, just accept in modern times people move around the globe.

No, I do NOT see the difference.

YANBU, you are being ridiculous.

I agree with you OP. The only reason it’s relatively easy for white English people to move to Oz or the US now is because of previous colonialism, for which the natives are still suffering hugely today. I’d feel very gross about moving there and contributing to the ongoing discrimination and two-tier social hierarchy.

My family have crossed continents over several generations. From suffering through pogroms in Ukraine, religious persecution in Europe, the land clearances in Scotland and the potato famine in Ireland to terrorism and murder in Ireland. In every generation at least one family group lost everything and had to start again.
This is repeated in every country, every generation to someone, somewhere. I have close friends who were refugees. They can tell horrific stories in their own living memory. People move countries for many reasons. It is a huge privilege to actually be able to choose where you move to/ where you end up. Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour once they settle somewhere. It isn't simple.

Chances are your family didn't own any slaves anyway, do you know how expensive it was to have one?

People I know that moved from UK to Australia eventually pick up the...they have so much given to them, why don't they try harder, they are all wasters/ alcoholic/ crims...narrative about aboriginals after a while.

You know arseholes

Well im Irish and white . Ireland was a colony of Britain and didn’t colonise anywhere…are the Irish unwelcome to move to such places? Are we lumped in the same category as other European countries who colonised places in the past because of the colour of our skin ?

@ScorpioKent "I'm not talking about historical occurrences, 1000 years ago plus ! "

You live in a country where the after-effects of the invasion of 1066 are still in evidence - due to the Norman's seizure of land and property that was then given to the nobility and to the church, and about 70% of Britain’s land is in the hands of less than 1% of its population, with a mere 160,000 families owning 66% of it.

You live in a country that has a deliberately unfair form of democracy which includes unelected lawmakers, and a legal system that is based on a 800-year-old document.

Unlike the citizens of many countries, you are considered to be a subject of the Crown.

I voted YABU because

a) your OP is very teenage and lacking in nuance, to the point where I suspect you’re trying to start an argument

b) you seem to be suggesting becoming racist is inevitable if you move somewhere like Australia, which is a totally different issue from “living on stolen land” and is clearly not the case - plenty of anti-racists in Australia

c) mumsnet is very obviously not the place for this kind of discussion, as you must know if you’ve seen how these posts go down in the past!

However running with Australia as an example simply because I’ve been there, I did find the visible suffering of the Aboriginal people very uncomfortable. If you are in a part of the country with a large Aboriginal population it’s impossible to ignore - it’s not ancient history, it’s right there in your face.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to suggest some people might find it difficult to live alongside that. At the very least it does cause you to become reflective about the completely arbitrary nature of our good fortune in being descended from the “winners” in history, and the equally arbitrary flipside of that.

I don’t believe it’s something that should be a blanket reason for every white person not to move to Australia however, or that any white person who moved to Australia is either a racist or destined to become one. Which is where your OP lost me!

Op, I appreciate your sentiments and that you are aware of the history of slavery and the part that Europeans played in it. As someone else said, much of the prosperity and power of European nations, in particular the UK, is due to their slave trade and their colonial past. And racism and a sense of white superiority /supremacy (in whatever diluted form) still affects us today, which is why this is different to the other examples people mentioned (Romans, etc.)

However, I think, not moving to a country because of this doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever. It just makes people more insular. Just because you move to Australia you don't have to adopt the mindset of superiority that you have described and in fact, with your attitude I really doubt you would. I don't know if that mindset is common in white Australians but even if it is you could be one of the good ones who just by thinking differently works against normalising these unpleasant views.

I think what would be much more helpful in mitigating the negative effects of the past would be to be non prejudiced, accepting and welcoming to anyone in whichever country you live irrespective of the colour of their skin or their background.

All human history comprises colonization of one kind or another. So, it's often a case of what point in history you choose to draw a line, and then a choice of what hill you (metaphorically) want to die on. Nor is it your place to 'speak for' local populations and how they might or might not see their own histories - which themselves are often contested.

I'm still not sure I understand your hand wringing OP.

If you move to, let's say Australia, and don't want to become a racist......just don't become one. You have autonomy over your own thoughts and values. It's not that racism is going to be suddenly downloaded into your brain once you step off the plane.

But racism isn’t catching…how would you ‘pick it up’ exactly?

No you are looking to stir up an argument and push race theory.

There are lots of people who move various places for legitimate reasons with not an ounce of colonial thought behind it.

Stop trying to push bullshit theory. I can't take anyone who comes up with this crap seriously because they haven't thought it through.