To think the past is being misrepresented on here?

One thing I notice with younger people starting out now is that they often want to start with so much more, and better quality things, than we ever could aspire to. Standards of want have definitely increased.

Household incomes have fallen in the past 15 or so years (though not precipitously) mainly due to low productivity

But that's the point 😆 we shouldn't be getting poorer & saying at least it's not Dickinson but I guess people don't want to acknowledge it.

But as I said it's a new thing for living standards to stagnate & @farmlife2 it's at a statistical level so won't apply to all obviously

We have such high standards now… after the war my grandparents rented 1 small room in the small house of another family, to live in it with their baby (my mother). They all had to share 1 toilet and kitchen and there was no real bathroom. People washed in the kitchen. We could never go back to that.

That's going to vary widely. My kids have had a standard of living I could only dream of, and we were pretty skint in the early days. Expectations are higher these days too.

Then again, when I went to school I was always the poor one who didn't have the same as everyone else, so the bar is pretty low.

Household incomes have fallen in the past 15 or so years (though not precipitously) mainly due to low productivity. They are certainly not lower than they were in the 80s!

"Britain is no longer a rich country after 15 years of stagnation “caused UK living standards to plummet”, according to economists, leaving parts of the UK worse off than the poorest parts of nations including Slovenia and Lithuania."

"“That the poorest in our country now fare worse than those in nations once considered less affluent is a stark indictment of the UK’s economic social model.”

I think this is what people complain about & yes whilst women are allowed to work, etc it's a new thing to have such stagnation & decline

When I left home ,to do my teacher training degree in 1984 ,the mortgage interest rate was 12%. My father's salary meant that they had to give me a set amount( which was a real struggle for them) They had my 2 teenage brothers still living at home. It was a very hard time for them and I could only look in absolute envy at fellow students who had flats with heating and washing machines. Our flat was so cold the water in the toilet bowl would freeze. We had strip washes , where you expose the tiny bit of yourself you need to wash but keep everything else covered. Once a week we'd go into the biggest hall of residence and have a bath. Couldn't afford to fill the bath in the flat. The cooker worked if you put 50p in the meter. Lovely flat in the summer. Awful from October to April.

We never recovered from the 08 crash & the shit has now hit the fan.

@Thepeopleversuswork I thought living standards were declining?

This nostalgia for a supposedly "family friendly" era is one of the things I find hardest about Mumsnet at the moment. People banging on about when it was easy to buy a home for tuppence ha'penny, no one needed to work two jobs, children were playing out all the time, gamboling in streams and scrumping apples as mum baked wholesome dinners and dad went out to do honest work to put food on the table. It's like being in a Hovis ad all the time: a massive cringe-filled distortion of reality.

I was at primary school in the 70s and I had a fairly normal and relatively affluent childhood but there were things that went on in those days (as documented extensively here) which would make people's hair stand on end now.

It's really expensive to buy a house these days, yes. And at the moment costs are high for things. That doesn't mean it's the worst era ever to grow up in. Anyone with the most glancing knowledge of history would understand that for all its challenges this is one of the safest and most prosperous eras to live through. Children's life expectancy is longer than ever. The risk of dying in childbirth from an infectious disease is lower than at any point in history. Women have protections under the law from exploitation and abuse which they didn't have until the early 1970s. And people who moan about women having to work would do well to remember that until the 1970s in Ireland married women were actually prohibited from working. The 70s were grim economically and there was a civil war in Northern Ireland. The 80s were better economically but our disposable income was far far lower than today. People who went on foreign holidays were considered wealthy.

Notwithstanding the cost of living crisis people are better off these days on most measures than they ever have been. I wish people would remember this before launching off into yet another "it was all better in the 80s" screed. It really wasn't.

People do move more for work these days than they used to. Those who have an expectation of this tend to rent rather than be tied to a house.

When I say generations before me, I'm talking about my family.

Yes, that was one thing that got to me when we couldn't buy a house even though we could afford the mortgage. The rent is the same as the repayments would be, so it seemed unfair that we couldn't buy, given we had a track record of being reliable payers. I guess the banks want the deposit margin for their security?

I know plenty of people who rent because they like that any repairs aren't their responsibility and they like that they can move whenever they want. I myself prefer to own because it means that I can't be told to move at the landlord's whim.

Before 2008, homeowners moved, on average, 3.6 times, after buying their first property
In recent years, the slower pace of buying and selling suggests they will move, on average, 1.8 times over their lifetimes

Of course renters probably have to move frequently

I think it's a bit of a change too that people really want to own a house. All the generations before me have been renters

I think that's obvious why though. Less social housing plus the fact rent today is often the same or more as a mortgage but it's insecure. Why wouldn't you rather pay your own mortgage off? I think people just want security & home ownership is a way of achieving that.

home ownership has reduced amongst the young so I presume you mean anecdotally that generations before you were renters?

I think the days are also gone where almost everyone stayed in one home for most of their life, or certainly all their children's lives.

I'm not sure what period you are comparing too but younger people today take less moves because they get on later & the costs of moving eg stamp duty.

Born late 70s - had such a happy childhood that I wouldn't swap for the world. We owned our house but lived across from a small estate with loads of families. We played out in the road and our front gardens til dark - football, British bulldog on bikes. I think our initials are still carved in the tree that was our 40:40 base. I'd be with friends from 8am til 8pm.

Eating out was a massive treat. I remember going to Pizza Hut when I passed my 11+ (which I didn't know I was taking til the day and hadn't prepped for). This was a big thing.

Sundays were for family - church, pub, roast dinner and then homework. The only shops open were garden centres.

My mum was a SAHM. She went back to work when I started secondary school. I loved having her at home when I came home from school. She could always come on school trips and our house was calm and organised. And yes you could buy a house in the south east on one middle manager's salary.

Christmas and birthdays were very special as that was the only time you got stuff. Going to the paper shop with 10p to buy a mix was also very exciting.

I guess I was lucky in that we weren't on our bones, my parents were healthy and functional, but I honestly don't think I am romanticising it. I hate the instant, comnercialism of today, social media pressures. Really feel for our youth.

I think it's a bit of a change too that people really want to own a house. All the generations before me have been renters. My parents eventually bought the house we lived in when I was a young teenager, but rented up till that point. There will be no inheritance from them, which is fine as it's not important to me. Maybe parental owning of a home increases the expectation or drive to own a home too?

I think the days are also gone where almost everyone stayed in one home for most of their life, or certainly all their children's lives. People are more mobile in the global economy, which also leaves a bigger chunk not wanting to own a home that ties them down.

I'm 51 I went to a very strict convent primary school itcwas highly academic so I remember, homework and tests it was also in a very middle class affluent area and it was like being in a little bubble starting secondary school albeit a Catholic one was a big culture shock we didn't have SATS but I remember Richmond tests ?
Both my parents worked for the Gas Board ,so did OK compared to a lot a families in the 80,s a lot better than I ,m doing, tbh
And we had yearly holidays abroad.

well the information I posted was showing that parental wealth & if they own a home determines life incomes more than job these days but there will always be exceptions. My point was that is a big change.

I think it can but I think you need to be more careful about what area you choose to study if you want it to lead to a well paying career.

@farmlife2 but education doesn't seem to be having that impact today.

Changes to deposit sizes, interest only, lack of MIRAS. That had an impact

@Meadowfinch I was responding to the post that it only got harder in the 00s because of population growth. That isn't true.

The difference for us was education. We went to university and things turned around in our generation. I didn't come from anything resembling wealth. Quite the opposite.

@loadalaundry The changes to borrowing rules post-08 simply involved going back to the rules that had existed in the 70s and early 80s. They weren't new. Maximum 3x man's income, maybe 1.5x woman's income. No exceptions.

we took a bus back from primary school, not with parents, just children
there was the cane for the boys