To wonder why civil service haters don't understand that cutting 10,000 jobs is going to hurt everyone

Sorry @Everythingisnumbersnow but there are lots of people not doing much at work or doing pretty useless tasks all day. That applies to both public service and the private sector. I think there will be a lot of job losses over the next few years and a much higher rate of employment. Some public servants have been far too protected despite doing a very poor job or just calling in sick constantly. This then reduces the budget for those hard working public servants who perform vital jobs. I agree that people losing their jobs and income will reduce tax take, cause more business closures and therefore have a knock on effect on spending in a circular manner. I don't accept that this is a good reason to never cut back on waste though. What is more interesting is whether this will actually reduce the deficit spending.That seems unlikely.

Wow OP I don't think I've ever come across such an entitled and misinformed series of posts on MN.

You do realise that civil servants are paid out the tax receipts from CORPORATE WORKERS - ie, companies that actually SELL a product or service for a PROFIT.

The Civil Service generates nothing. Nada. Zilch. It COSTS the tax payer MONEY to run each and every year. It is FULL to the BRIM of WASTRELS and waste-generating pointless activities and many on here agree with this sentiment.

I can only assume you've been sleeping under a rock for the past couple of months because DOGE run by Elon Musk in the USA - someone who generates a profit, who has been the most profitable man on this earth and pays a vast amount of tax and which pays for the civil service in the USA and enables the US government to run, has been following Milie's waste cutting example from Argentina.

You really should read up about Xavier Milie because it's quite the education in small government and reducing the budget deficit to the point that Argentina which has been a basket case of an economy (remember it going bankrupt and needing to be saved by the IMF? Thought not), for around 3 decades has finally produced a SURPLUS for the first time in many years.

This is nothing short of miracle and has been noted by ALL western government around the world. Love or loathe Milie and Musk, but this is what is coming and do you know why???

Why??

Because the USA is $37 TRILLION IN DEBT.

The UK is £3 TRILLION in debt.

If you don't end the gravy train at some point, there will be no more trains and certainly no more gravy. Ever. In fact there won't even be enough food to feed the little piggies and they will become weak and possibly perish. Goodbye capitalism, goodbye everything we've ever known. Hello gruesome country-wide poverty aka a bankrupt country.

That's what western economies are facing. Going BUST like Argentina.

Do you know what we pay every month in interest on our debt in the UK?

£100 billion each MONTH. This is unsustainable. Our interest bill is going up and up and up to the point that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle of suicidal debt.

So the idea of a small state, a civil service reduced by 50%, yes 50% very much appeals to politicians because they'd like life to continue on as we know it and not plunge us into catastrophic financial crisis.

And those 10,000 people can go and find work in jobs that actually produce a PROFIT and pay some TAXES, which could go some way to paying our debts that we have accumulated through too many hand outs and too large a state, ie, too many civil servants doing not very much at all.

No a rising tide should not lift all boats, freeloading boats that don't contribute anything should be cut loose because they risk sinking the whole damned fleet.

And is it actually those people that the university is making redundant?

I was in this position. It was soul destroying. Every time I asked for more or tried to use my initiative I was shut down.

I was experienced, able, articulate, and passed several aptitude tests and have professional qualifications.

My job could have been done in day a week by a school leaver.

I once spent 2 weeks revising for an exam and no one noticed.

I gave it 6 months as I was promised improvements and when nothing was forthcoming then I found a new job where I have been for 10 years.

It was honestly awful. I strongly suggested my manager didn’t replace my role but she did.

Fucking twit.

Is that you Nadine? Still smarting eh? 😂

I know four people who work in the civil service who do fuck all work. They aren’t lazy they just get given so little to do. Cutting these useless jobs into much better than cutting vital services which is how governments of the past have dealt with debt. Bring it on. And I say that as someone who works in a university who is surrounded by people doing fuck all work.

I managed 7 weeks at HMRC before I went running back to the private sector as fast as I could. The final straw for me, was when I suggested we used file dividers for legal bundles labelled ‘X, Y, Z’ as we had thousands of those, unused, because the lawyers liked to only use the ‘A, B, C’ ones.

My boss told me to get back in my box, and ordered thousands more full sets of file dividers, so the lawyers could use the ‘A,B,Cs’ whilst the ‘X, Y, Z’s gathered dust.

The American investment banks cull the bottom 5-10% performers every year. They should do the same in the civil service.

None of which has anything to do with the civil service, as you clearly work for local government, so are not a civil servant.

The problems with the civil service are democracy and politicians. 😉

I work for a Labour council so very little I’d imagine. I’m pretty sure all of the councils have that have gone bust were Labour led too.

In my year out I worked in a Benefits Office. OMG the inefficiency and pointless faffing was off the scale. Not to mention my EO was mildly drunk by mid afternoon every day.

My ex SIL and an ex boyfriend were also Civil Servants working for the Land Registry. They had endless days off sick (despite being perfectly healthy twenty somethings) and invented lots of office games just to pass the time as they were so under worked.

This was years ago but I very much doubt anything has changed?

Did you want more shit shows from the Tories? Or were you hoping for Reform?

NHS England staff are not civil servants.

Only 10,000? 😕 Not enough.

Public sector staff should have the same rates of pay and bonuses then.

Didn't COVID / furlough show that people actually kept and saved money and / or spent it abroad rather than in this country. The idea had been to keep money flowing but pretty sure it failed.

The question is, how much of that is a consequence of incompetent Tory politicians making pointless and expensive ideological changes during austerity, letting the most experienced and competent employees go (because they were willing and able to move on elsewhere where their expertise was better appreciated) and leaving behind the less experienced and less competent because they were cheaper and willing to stay in a toxic working environment.

As of March 2024 there were 543,000 civil service employees. 10,00 is a drop in the ocean - I expect more than that leave / retire each year. It’s just Starmer try8mg to look tough while doing nothing of any use.

less than 10 years ago there were more than 100,000 fewer civil servants…

But, either way, cutting the number of civil servants will only make the country as a whole better off

Don’t you think most jobs are like this though? I bet there’s plenty of people in your investment bank who could be argued to be inefficient/surplus.

These are real people’s lives. Families who will struggle to pay bills.

Im not saying it’s not positive for the public sector long term, but it’s bloody tragic for 10,000 workers and their families, especially with the COI. Many of these people will be working hard, it’s not their fault their organisation has suddenly been deemed unnecessary.

Don't agree with this. Whole NHS England teams and departments will disappear. It's not just about reducing head count. It's about reducing duplication.

It’s Mumsnet, it’s inevitable

NHS England employees are NHS employed staff, @Walkaround is correct. My guess is that at least some of the current NHS England staff will end up DHSC employees.

I work in the public sector after qualifying in the private sector, the waste and incompetence are absolutely staggering.

It would be a lot at one site, but the staff involved are almost certainly distributed around the country so the impact would be spread. It's not like the days when a factory or mine closure could decimate an entire town.

Civil service job cuts won’t all happen in one go. As for NHS England, I don’t believe its employees are civil servants, as it’s a quango. As government plans to bring NHS England’s work back under government control, I reckon some of the people losing their NHS England jobs will be employed instead by the civil service, thus boosting civil service numbers.🤣