To wonder why civil service haters don't understand that cutting 10,000 jobs is going to hurt everyone

Will the NHS function for patients? It’s not fit for purpose at the moment.

If you want to explain why this is a terrible idea, it might have been better to start with the impact it will have on the patient experience?

I haven't seen anyone even try to explain what we'll miss about it.

So you're saying it's better to pay someone 30k+overheads (eg pension) for no reason so we can get back 4k in taxes from them?

I’m not enjoying the gloating on this thread by posters who feel comfortable they themselves won’t be facing the loss of their job.

It may well be that the CS needs to trim down, but let’s not forget the real life impact on people of redundancy, some of whom will never regain the same earnings. And will be out looking for a new role in very lean times. There’ll be families struggling from this who were comfortable before, who will now face stress and hardship.

Fwiw, I’ve worked in both the public and private sector and seen waste and inefficiency in both. Also good practice in both. It really depends on the organisational culture and who’s running it. It’s not quite as simple as saying ‘civil service inefficient and wasteful and private sector the dream ticket for efficiency’. The actuality is somewhat more nuanced. I hope Starmer and crew know what they’re doing here.

It depends who is being made redundant and what their role is.

eg

• paying benefits and pensions
• running employment services
• running prisons
• issuing driving licences

We desperately need the economy to grow, paying for a inefficient Civil Service just so people are in work is not going to fuel this growth. Growth will come from the private sector, we need to focus the private sector rather than wring our hands worrying about redundancies in the CS. As a previous poster mentioned when banks were making thousands of redundancies, there was no outcry. It should be the same for our public sector. We shouldn't accept poor performance and poor value from it. It needs to be leaner and more productive.

Doesn’t pay anywhere near enough. I’m one of those accountants, would love to work for HMRC - but not for a 40% pay cut I wouldn’t, I’d rather go down to 3 days a week.

But I’m another who will be literally unaffected by civil service cuts. Rich people will still pay for my advice, I’m still highly skilled and experienced in a niche where not many others are.

If we were both made redundant tomorrow we would look for work in our current sectors for a bit but if unsuccessful downsize and move somewhere we could afford to live cheaply and find minimum wage work. Because we are adults and don’t expect the government to solve all of our problems for us.

Everyone seems to have this notion that civil servants are sitting around doing nothing all day. Where do they get this notion from? The Daily Mail? There is no evidence to support this. I think it's astonishing that one day KS is saying about how he needs to "get everyone working" by cutting benefits and then he wants to cut 10,000 jobs. I didn't vote for Labour this time round (voted Green) as he's always been a tory with a red tie but I never thought he would make Labour not be able to win an election for a generation by his actions.

Tell me in what way the country’s services will suffer following these redundancies. That’s what the OP ought to have told us if she wanted any sympathy.

I don’t see why not. My company is in the middle of making 7500 people redundant. It’s not that unusual.

People can move to where the jobs are. We seem frighteningly comfortable with people coming from all over the globe to fill vacancies here, but, God forbid somebody already here should have to move to find work!

Tell me what you think Civil Servants do. I mean actually are responsible for?

Yes

I was a civil servant for a long time. The Peter principle is very much alive and kicking within it.
I saw more and more layers of management created then culled and then recreated. I have several friends who wfh in ‘policy’ on secondment who literally have nothing to do for days on end. The civil service needs more grass roots workers and many less managers who seem to justify their existence by continually having meetings that re- invent the wheel.

Most people have no idea what many civil servants do, they just envisage a Sir Humphrey figure from Yes Minister. Civil Servants are the people who keep all sorts of local and national services running.

Are you saying these are good years?! Could’ve fooled me, yet the private sector is still leading the payrise way atm.

The same people who are currently paying them to be employed - the taxpayer. Unemployment benefits are cheaper than their wages.

They can train to be teachers, we've a massive shortage of those

It’s quite basic international tax rules actually. No expensive legal advice needed. You might not like it but it’s totally above board and legal. There is nothing our government can do about it. Countries are working together to minimise profit shifting but it takes time and cooperation. There is NOTHING that recruiting HMRC officers will be able to do in this area.

but would it be possible 10000 in one go?

Thanks to the posters who posted facts rather than emotions.

What can do they do instead? Are 10000 jobs currently vacant in the right part of the country at the right level?
If thousands of these people were really hired because of Brexit or the pandemic then they should have looked for another job earlier. I understand if they held out for a bigger redundancy payment or pension contributions if they were close to retiring age anyway.

https://news.sky.com/story/almost-certain-civil-service-staff-numbers-will-be-cut-in-ai-efficiency-drive-minister-says-13327407

“Downing Street said one in 10 civil servants will work in tech and digital roles within the next five years” It sounds clear what kind of skills are going to be in demand if working as a civil servant.

Depends on your expectations n mic viewpoint and your moral view of the world. After the wars and after the Civil ash jibs were created in public works. Sometimes keeping people in work is better for society than having them sit around doing nothing and their self esteem destroyed.
I should add that I am not in favour of the bloated Civil Service but, in my opinion, sweeping changes like this are unlikely to make the savings that he expects.

Sorry but Keir

I worked in the public sector for few years after several years in the private sector. It was like being on holiday. The lack of urgency, moveable deadlines, people off sick constantly was eye opening. I have no idea what my manager was doing most of the time, I never saw her and she always seemed to have some family emergency she needed to attend to,

We could probably have got rid of a third of my department and it wouldn't have made any difference.