NHS England to go is Keir being unreasonable?

I worked on a campaign years ago (maybe 2012?) to highlight the awful idea that was the Lansley plan to divest responsibility for all of it. It was clear then that it would turn into a convoluted mess.

But what does wind me up is the rhetoric of 'checkers and blockers' to talk about people who are just doing a job and are now in the dark about what happens to that job. Same as shirkers, skivers - it is a vile way to talk about the complexities and nuances of work, people and life. Yes blame the system but lay off the attacks on people. Expected better but increasingly seeing the folly of that.

You can fund as many doctor training places as you want, you need the capacity amongst the senior clinical workforce to train them. The capacity isn’t there unless we are willing to cut productivity (appointments, surgery etc) further.

Money will be saved on management positions but Im not certain it will translate into higher productivity.

It's a great thing that NHS England are to go. Good effing riddance. I worked for a local authority (in one of the poorest boroughs) for many years, every week there was a meeting between senior social care staff and NHS 'managers'. They came in, talked about issues, wrote up the odd report which no one ever read and got paid an absolute fortune. Each meeting would be attended by 2 or 3 managers, each earning around 60k. Honestly, it's a cushy job if you can get it..

Everyone I’ve ever known who’s worked for the NHS, from surgeon to admin, had said that there are far too many managers, and a shocking amount of waste.

Absolutely - my Mum was in a hospital bed from November to the end of January waiting for a suitable care package - all of that time aside from 1 week when she had infection, she was medically fit for discharge.

Give me a list of ALL the “arms length” bodies and I’ll chose the wasteful ones (the ones “friends of Labour” getting stupid salaries)

The NHS will be on it's knees unless and until social care is properly addressed.

I'm afraid this is a headline grabber that fails to deal with the real issues that the NHS face.

I also don't trust Mr Starmer to do good for the people, he appears to have little regard to core labour values to be honest.

I didn't vote Labour the first time ever this election, I declined to vote.

In my opinion he is no better than the Tories and my fears which led me to fail to vote for him have played out.

Surely taskforces are created with a time limiter engagement. To, presumably, work out what is going on and then enable improvement.

Even if KS knows areas have issues there's no way he would know everything to enable streamlining. I would expect a task force to tell him that?

That just about sums him up, doesn't it? 😂

But isn’t the problem new UK nurses and doctors can’t get jobs in the NHS? The whole system
is nuts.

I think that's already happening but you do understand it takes 5 years to train?

I don't think anyone really knows what this means yet.

If it means centralising purchasing power, for example, and saving money that way , all good.

It appears at the moment that the NHS is very fragmented with no joined-up thinking between all the trusts across England.

It does need some kind of central control instead of layers of management and waste.

How he will do this is unclear.

It’s always been political.

I can see no reason why a politicised NHS would be a bad idea.

It's good news. Lansleys reforms were a disaster for the NHS. There are a lot of duplicated functions across NHSE and DHSC. I feel terribly sorry for the huge number of people who will be losing their jobs though. I have worked with many people from both NHSE and DHSC over the years and they've all been very on the ball

Where I am, there actually is no shortage of training places, it's a shortage of people willing to take them up, because the perception of the career that awaits has fallen so low that fewer and fewer people are interested.

It's not disinterest in the vocation, it's the horror stories of horrendous hours, horrendous salaries, staff being abused, attacked, etc etc

I worked in the NHS for over 20 years and I agree with you. Cutting the costs of organisations that deliver no front line care and micromanage those that do can only be a good thing.

I don’t know the detail of how this will work and what it actually means - but I work in the NHS and the conversations I have had in the last hour is that of overwhelming positivity at the move. Many are sick of the bureaucracy, the rules, the middle men (nhse) we have to appease to get anything done!

However Starmer will be judged on delivery so the detail is important as is his commitment this morning about this meaning more nurses etc…

Happy to hold my hand up and admit my NHS experience is not within the English NHS, so I'll defer to your superior knowledge, I just get a bit riled when I come across the frequent assertion that everyone and anyone in an admin or management role within the NHS is undoubtedly just an unnecessary waste of resources, in a "non-job", needs booted, and the money spent on beds/nurses. It's laughably naive.

Could do with more admin staff but at a lower level to help with tasks such as rotas leave sickness admin etc. - the secretaries of old. Not senior managers who seem to spend their days doing walkabouts.

Yep. NHSE's functions were previously carried out by DHSC.

That won’t happen with the demise of NHSE, it doesn’t employ any front line staff. It’s the epitome of bureaucracy.