To think punctuality is a sign of basic respect?

If the grammar and spelling of others has such an impact on you, then that is something you need to deal with. You might find it a minor annoyance, but it is totally different to being left waiting for 90 minutes in a cafe, wondering if your friend is actually going to turn up.

I had a friend who was constantly late, every single time bar none. Blamed time blindness. Yet she was NEVER late for work. Strange that ..

Some people do struggle more than most with time keeping-
My ex was always late and the kids seemed to follow his lead so when planning family trips etc I would always tell them an earlier time than I actually planned. I would be ready on the off chance they were too but generally I just got on with tidying up or something without getting stressed because I knew I had planned some slack into the plan.

This.
This is a real life example.... I used to be a hospital porter in a kid's hospital. Part of my job was taking parcels to the wards. Usually general medical supplies, but sometimes a parcel would come in that was fast tracked and brought in by a courier as it was an item needed for surgery that was going ahead that day.
The parcels coming in had to be written up by the storeman before we could take them to the wards. The storeman we had used to turn up late to every shift, then go up to the canteen for breakfast when he did show up. He was always hungover, so would sleep a lot too and end up with a huge pile pf parcels that he then said he could not deal with.
The annoying thing was, he was untouchable as our supervisor was his mum. Nepotism at its finest.
Anyway, he finally got moved to another role when a child's operation was cancelled as they thought a vital bit of kit that he did not write up in time (because he was not actually there) didn't turn up. It did... on time for the op... except he was late, then off having breakfast in the canteen.

I don't understand the difference in approach on MN re time keeping versus spelling and punctuation. If someone is a bit late that's considered rude, even if the person who is late has ADHD, because they should do their best to minimise their impact on others. In contrast, spelling and grammatical errors, which have more impact between members of the MN reader population, are fine (unless you're in pedants' corner) and we should all just chill rather than call these out or expect people to do their best to minimise them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's not about not valuing your time as much as mine, it's about not valuing time at all in the same way.
I would never leave a pub where I'd arranged to meet a friend because they were 10-20 mins late. I'd just wait for them, with a drink. So I don't stress about being late to that degree myself. Those 10-20 mins aren't the last minutes on earth, its a casual thing. I don't think those minutes matter, so I don't 'respect' them but it has nothing to do with my respect for you.

And people who come early, especially to an event you're hosting, can fuck right off. They are in the way.

No, I've been clear. I am talking about 10-15 mins late for a social meet-up in a cafe or a pub, or at your house, not an NHS appointment.

No I won't. I don't work for you. My value at work is not judged by when I turn up but by what I do when I turn up.

But she does, head of service gives a clue! People like you are what are bringing nhs to knees by being late or not turning up. I recently cancelled a restaurant reservation & they were so grateful that I’d called as they have loads of no shows or they could have held table for ages. Entitlement at its best!

I don't care what you do personally in the slightest. I shan't care when you post a whinge about being passed over for promotion. If you can't be bothered to turn up on time, you will lose opportunities.

Yeah, but I don't work for you. Why do you care what I do?

@MasterBeth I care. I am the Head of Service and if you start at nine, I expect you in at 9. My service has to be available in core hours to provide a service. Because I expect my staff to be in on time, I am always in early.

Yes, I am exactly trying to justify my sometimes lateness, but I mean it. I don't care that much and I think you're a bit over-anxious if you do.

I'm talking 10-15 mins for a social meet-up in a cafe or a pub, or at your house. Just get a drink and wait. I'd do the same for you. Don't stress about it.

Yes, being on time is just how it should be.
I used to go to a support group where it was in the rules that if you were 30 minutes late, then you would not be allowed in. One lady kept turning up with just 10 minutes left to go, and would say "you should be glad I got here at all". I met her socially a few times, and she was always late, and made me out to be selfish for finding it hard to sit by myself in a cafe for 90 mins before she turned up. It wasn't like she was getting ready at the last minute or anything... she would just decide to go shopping or something before, and think people would be ok because "she at least made the effort to show up".

@Imthatboleyngirl I can sort of understand that but if you have to be at work at 9am and your train journey is 40 minutes and your walk to the platform takes 12 minutes, you surely know that if you have to catch the 8.05, you have to leave the house at 7.50.

I also know I like 30 minutes with a cup of tea and it takes me 35 minutes to wash my face and hands, brush my teeth, do my hair, get dressed, put on my make-up. Therefore, I have to start the process at 6.45 at the latest.

It's something I work at. My clothes for tomorrow are already laid out and my lunch is made and in the fridge.

My clothes aren't ready and my lunch isn't ready. I'll do them in the morning.

As a result, I might get to work at five past nine. Or I might get there at 8.45. Who knows? Who cares? I have no meetings until lunchtime.

Why bother reading or commenting if you're so bored by the subject? It'd be better for you to just ignore it.

I hate it and find it very disrespectful. I had a friend who couldn't give a toss. She'd sweep in an hour or so late with no apology. Didn't occur to her to care that I'd been hanging around waiting for her.

I think people who say that people who are simply on time are uptight, have a stick up their arse, or don't have much going on in their lives are a good example of the lady doth protest too much, and I think they're trying to justify their own lateness with "yes I'm late, but really who wants to be on time anyway! On time people are so uptight.."

Work: never, or if totally unavoidable, message others who are expecting you. Unless there's a derailment, road closure, train cancellation I don't think anyone should ever be late for work.

Socially: I think it's ruder to arrive to someone's house 10 minutes early than ten minutes late.

Theatre, opera, restaurants, hairdresser, Dr, dentist, etc., of course you have to be on time. Every time and you allow for a delay.

I find the habit of NHS medics, clinics, reprehensible. Yes, sometimes it's an emergency but more often than not it's because the time of the patient is not respected. And yet, there are notices everywhere telling the patient they may not be late and will not be seen if they are. It grinds my gears, especially when there is no apology.

It's something I work at. My clothes for tomorrow are already laid out and my lunch is made and in the fridge.

I think it's rude, but I have time blindness because of ADHD. My brain is simply wired in a way that changes my ability to estimate and judge time. I simply can not keep track of time! I also get distracted and easily forget what I was supposed to be doing.

For example, I underestimate the time needed to get ready for an appointment, causing me to turn up late.

Time blindness is a legitimate issue for people with ADHD. It’s not intentionally disrespecting someone else’s time.

I feel useless, stupid, stressed, and pissed off at myself. To combat it, I will set an alarm that goes off every 10 mins to keep on track, I have a routine app that is programmed to know how long it takes me to do each task, do hair, make coffee etc. And if an appointment is in the afternoon, I will go into waiting mode because I'm terrified of being late, or I will turn up an hour early.

According to research, the ability to perceive and estimate time is linked to the activity levels of the prefrontal cortex. A lower level of activity may contribute to poorer time perception.

Time horizon helps people determine how quickly a task is approaching and when we should start acting on it. People with ADHD tend to have a shorter time horizon and “future time blindness,” meaning that deadlines often enter their mental radar when it’s too late.

Time management is a multi-dimensional skill that involves concentration, memory, and planning. People with ADHD are often crap with time management.

Sorry for the waffle, I just wanted to stress that it's just not as simple for some people.

I always assume people who turn up early/on time haven't got much going on in their lives and are overly keen.

My partner and I met up with some family members recently, we rushed and got there five mins late, expecting they'd be looking at the menus. No, they'd apparently downloaded the menu the previous night and spent the evening discussing what they were having and so had already ordered. Can't imagine having that much free time 😳

I think it's a divisive one....

I have a dear friend who I love to pieces. She is on the autism spectrum and I think this affects how she is with her routines, but she's up early, kids up early, wants to meet at 9 and will kind of blurt this routine at me and I'm like 😬. We're a very 'chilled' out kind of family. I like a lazy morning, couple of coffees. The kids are chilled too. I like to have a 10-11am meet up.

I often sacrifice what my ideal time would be as my poor friend kind of blurts a plan at me and completely unintentionally 'dictates' our meet up schedule. Because I'm easy going, I'll tend to go agree with it. We'll inevitably be 10 mins late as it's just too early for us ! She always jokes to me that I'm always 'late' but actually she's always 'too early ' for me!

It's my fault I know. I should tell her. But it's easier said than done when someone is on the autism spectrum, you just kind of get this plan done for you (and it's so well intentioned) but our preferences are unintentionally not considered 😬

So I guess, my perspective is... If it's a non work or appointment related one - I wonder if the person complaining about their friend being always late has actually thought about whether their plans are timings work for the other person ? Are they a well intentioned time dictator ?

If it's work or appointments then perpetual lateness is sloppy and says a lot about that person's work ethic / general priorities/ laziness

If someone is late for me though, I tend to think "oh, their time was indeed more valuable than mine". It's ok if someone's time is more valuable.

I assume they were delayed because the previous thing they were doing took longer. And it must have been important otherwise they'd have stopped on time.

And I assume people can extend me the same courtesy.

In the days of zoom I fricking hate it. Everyone there at 14:59 rolling their eyes when I log on at 15:03. It's just silly.

If someone's late it doesn't matter, just finish the same time you would have done, and take 10 minutes less over it.

I had a friend once that would regularly be 45-60+ minutes late for us meeting up. She never apologised. I phased the friendship out in the end.

Another friend who was ND was late all the time but she was proud of it. Like it was a personality trait. She'd always insist on looking her polished best as she couldn't bear to leave the house without a full face of makeup on. It never occurred to her that it was really rude to be late for things because she prioritised her time differently. But she'd be consistently late for everything and not see the big deal. She even said once that it shouldn't matter because people need to accept that she is ND and never made any efforts to change things. She'd never been able to hold down a permanent job.

5, 10, 15 minutes late I wouldn't care about. But consistently 30+ minutes late, when you are meeting someone in a public place so they are waiting around for you? Come on.