AIBU to feel outraged that Kyle Clifford is able to refuse to attend court today?

Thiss

Gag him, then he couldn't shout.

Yes, check the BBC news website . There was a live blog .

Feel sorry for the officers in prison who have to tend to him daily.
Does he need help with everything eg showering, dressing, imagine having to tend to him.
Does someone have to.push him round the prison as well.
I don't believe that he wanted to die after he'd killed them.
He lay in a graveyard waiting gor the police to come.

You'd have rushed to the nearest train station and jumped or jumped off a very tall.building if you wanted to be certain of killing yourself.
You wouldn't hang around.

What is the point of the victim impact statement if the perpetrator is not there to hear it?

The views of the family should absolutely be taken into accounts and if they want him to hear it, he should hear it.

Too many on here more bothered about the rights of the perpetrator rather than the family, indicative of the society we live in nowadays I suppose and evidence on so many different threads and in different circumstances.

If the perpetrators cannot be physically restrained and brought to court because it may risk injury to the prison staff, then at the very least they should put a camera in the cell so that the family can see the prisoner in the cell and stream it loudly into the cell. It could then be repeated every morning or evening in the cell

If this was not possible for some namby-pamby reason, then that should be a penalty for the perpetrator for example loss of privileges or luxury items, et cetera, so that we can prove who is in charge here and that the perpetrator holds no powers or control.

Does anyone know if the full sentencing remarks have been posted online?

Yes he is, and it's hard not to wonder what exactly has been going on in that family

My own view counts for nothing compared to that of the family, but would anything honestly have been gained by dragging Clifford into court?
Yes he's a snivelling coward, but then we knew that anyway and surely what matters most is that he should never be able to do this to anyone else

It's a nice idea on the surface, but in reality it wouldn't work out so well. It shouldn't be forced by a law change either. I'd be quite happy for sentencing rules to be amended to stipulate that if a defendant refuses to attend their sentencing a mandatory 25% increase is applied.

But in this case that'd probably make no difference either, he knows he'll never get released. So I'd prefer that he's locked in a cell with a very loud pa that plays recordings of the victim impact statements at him for 23 hours a day, for the duration of his sentence. Prison in this country is too soft, not deterring people from serious crime.

I am well aware of that, was just drawing attention to it

Some seriously stupid ideas on here and a staggering lack of knowledge of what it's like to work with offenders in a prison setting.

Most people don't have a clue sadly

The majority of them aren't coming out anyway. They have nothing to lose.

They will never be rehabilitated and it's not fair on prison or court staff to have to deal with them.

One of my colleagues works with the prison officers association so I hear various things from him. The officers do not need to be dragging prisoners back to court to listen to sentencing. It's a beast of a job.

Play the sentence in his cell on a loudspeaker where he can't get away from it then.
It's only right that somehow he should have to listen.
We really are so freaking soft. He's wielded his power right until the end.

I agree about deeply ingrained misogyny. Whilst I think that the convicted criminal should be forced to hear the victim statements, I am not sure it should be in the courtroom where they can be disruptive.

They also execute people by firing squad. Some of the violent fantasies here are very disturbing.

People thought that about Christopher Watts on Colorado after murdering his little girls , wife and unborn son.
Instead he has besotted women sending him fan mail , chats with his parents and is quite happy - if institutionalised -from reports of fellow inmates.

And then he'd probably scream and bawl and curse and bring proceedings to a standstill, increasing the distress for the bereaved.

I like the idea of him being forced to watch/listen to proceedings from a room at the prison though. Obviously with the sound turned off at his end so he can't interrupt. Not necessarily be forced to listen to the victim impact sentences - I fear his ilk would get off on having the effects of the carnage laid out before him. But certainly to hear his whole life sentence read aloud in real-time.

No. Everyone has the same human rights. That's the whole fucking point!

You can’t - it’s an irrational comment.

What we do with the psychopaths and sociopaths. That's a huge problem.
Axel nutty slack, clearly showing signs of a personality disordered state ( not treatable in any way I understand). What exactly do you do?

There's alot of people like this all around and we just don't know what to do with them.

I know we are all on a continuum of being, but where there are flags, what do you do.

I don't think there are any answers. Can prison systems manage this. And I don't want them around us knowing rehabilitation is not possible.

Totally agree. Yet another life taken by a total misogynist, supported by dark online influences.

We as women also need to ensure the females in our lives aren't involved or coming into contact with men like this. Get them away. Cut them off. Like, presumably Louise's family knew Kyle's brother was a murderer and that Kyle himself had very strange views and opinions. It's not a small thing when people start sympathising with Andrew Tate.

You could revoke all privileges and make them earn them from scratch.

This. An obstructive and aggressive defendant is worse than the defendant not being there,

Not sure how you double a whole life term

There should be more whole life terms. It's sickening that Huntley, Sharif etc. may not be in prison for their natural lives, although saying that I can't imagine the parole board ever being stupid enough to let them out. While I agree many prisoners can be rehabilitated, I don't think that extends to murderers.

SOFT BRITAIN. Unbelievable. This country is ridiculous. Name me another country this is allowed. Maybe if we had tougher punishments people would escalate into crime. Kyle didn't wake up one day and murder these women, he has been a long time offender. In Singapore if you throw a cigarette on the street you go to jail. If you steal something you are punished with lashes. If you sell drugs you are sentenced to death. Safest country in the world. I'm so angry at the soft state of this crumbling country.