To think the NHS should not be cutting funding for Anorexia and EDs if they are going to be spending ££££ on weight loss jabs

The moon on a stick? Honestly op. Most people on weight loss jabs pay privately for them. They are a relatively recent thing....prior to them, obese people weren't being offered the moon on a stick. You sound incredibly angry. Fine, be angry about the treatment offered to those with eds, but there really is no need to direct your anger at those who are overweight.

I voted yabu.... not because I think funding should be cut for those with eating disorders, but because I thought it was really unnecessary for you to even bring weight loss jabs into it. It smacks of a very judgmental outlook towards those who are overweight...why should they get help if others don't. It's unnecessary. You can discuss the funding for those with eating disorders on its own merit rather than trying to make comparisons.

Obese people suffer from disordered eating and as such are just as entitled to help as anorexics or any other group. If you want to take your argument to it's logical conclusion, why should the NHS help people who choose not to eat?
It helps smokers.
It helps alcoholics.
It treats people with life style related cancers.
It helps people who crash a car while pissed and smash their body to shit.

But god forbid we help fat people. They are unworthy.

Why the fuck are fat people trying to improve their heath scapegoated all the fucking time?

This thread saddens me. Your anger is palpable but misplaced.

By comparing obesity with anorexia nervosa you show you don't understand anorexia at all, although it seems to be about weight,not never really is. I have spent multiple hospital admissions with people over 20 years and not once has their illness been about weight. I also calculated how much the NHS has spent on mine treatment for anorexia alone, over £250000. That's an astonishing amount of money for one person and I am grateful I was given the opportunity. I am firmly in recovery, and in all honesty if therenwas a jab that would mean it would never return I could take weekly then sign me up!!sadly there isn't.b

Obesity is an illness that causes distress and has devastating consequences, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, sleep apnoea. Why shouldn't someone be given the opportunity to tackle their illness which will ultimately save the NHS money to them be distributed amongst other services.

I understand it's an issue close to your heart, mine also, but everyone deserves treatment and obesity is neglected, as currently we're focusing on the symptoms rather than prevention.

I think you would benefit from some therapy for the enormous stress you have been under for the past years. I say this with kindness. Anorexia destroys families.

Best wishes to you

They're two separate things. ED treatment should be better funded, yes, but it's not as a direct result (or even related to) the funding of GLP1 medications. And while I understand that it's frustrating, in many cases GLP1s quickly and effectively treat obesity and reduce the spend on related diseases. Funding treatment for EDs is complicated, recovery and treatment plans are slow and expensive, and there IS no quick fix available - that doesn't mean we shouldn't be applying funding for things where there is an effective treatment.

(I also don't hold any stock in the idea that the NHS is now promoting ED-like behaviour. All proper actual prescribing advice encourages you to eat healthily, ensure you don't starve yourself, get enough protein, make healthy diet and exercise choices, etc. People who are obtaining GLP1s via deception and using them to indulge in ED-like behaviour =/= the NHS encouraging it. GLP1s via the GP will be subject to being escalated through a relatively robust set of interventions, referrals to the weight management service, etc. Just because people CAN buy them off the internet and misuse them doesn't mean that's what the NHS is funding).

But a lot of the people getting the weight loss injections HAVE got an eating disorder themselves.
I've had compulsive over eating and binge eating disorder for over 20 years, I feel completely out of control about my eating, and it's terrifying. Eating to the point you feel sick or are in pain, eating things you don't even particularly like, having this contant second voice in your head constantly whispering about food. When i try to diet or even just set healthy eating boundaries, that voice stops being a whisper and becomes a shout, it takes over my every waking thought, racing round my head "FOOD FOOD FOOD!" I find myself an anxious mess clock watching, obsessing on how soon is too soon, trying to work out if i can allow myself a small snack at the next hour on the hour, how many calories max can that be, what adds up to those calories that will make me feel full enough I'm not staring at the time 15 minutes later planning the next time i can have something else etc.
It is all consuming and just as mentally taxing as bulimia and anorexia. It also has major physical health impacts, to feel like you cant get any air, be dripping sweat and feeling faint if you walk up the stairs a bit too fast, to feel your heart constantly racing, I'm lucky if my resting heartrate when asleep is under 95 beats a minute, and just sat at my laptop typing and clicking about the internet i'm typically around 115. I'm scared all the time that my heart is going to fail, i'm in constant pain from the pressure the weight puts on my joints, my lungs, i feel like a ticking time bomb, I've begged various doctors for help for years and got nothing. The most i got was a referral to a dietician, who basically just shamed me for over eating, pushed healthy vs unhealthy foods which i'm well aware of, and to drink stupid ammounts of water every time i feel hungry to make sure it's not just thirst. But thats the point, i mostly eat when i DON'T feel hungry, or even feel full, and will massively over eat any type of food not just junk, because of this compulsive voice egging me on that won't shut up and leave me alone!

The majority of people, even medical prefessionals, act like the only real eating disorders are the ones that make you incredibly thin, and the ones that make you morbidly obese at the opposite extreme end of the eating disorder scale, aren't real mental illness and its just greed and lack of willpower or laziness.
You see a very skinny person and its seen as far more beautiful and acceptable than a very fat person. They're treated with more respect, more understanding and concern, and are much less sneered at and treated like they're disgusting.

Are injectable medications, that chemically reduce your appetite and make you physically throw up if you eat more than a small portion of food at a time, and give you diarhoea, the treatment we really need most? No, it isn't, but in the majority of cases its the only treatment we are going to get, and it's ONLY funded by the NHS if your obesity is past a certain BMI, and has already led you to a point you have comorbidities like none alcoholic fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, sleep apnoea etc. Most of the people on it just for weightloss without a linked condition are not getting it via the NHS but by private prescription.

I myself haven't been offered it on the NHS despite being 5'4 and 18 stone with a BMI over 40, because I'm "only" prediabetic and not full fledged type 2.

I am really sorry the cuts have made it to anorexia and bulimia treatment, it should morally only ever expand to reach more people with more types of eating disorder. I've been in the MH system for over 20 years for other health issues, (tried for ED help and got none because they only worked with bulimia and anorexia) it was always lacking but has gotten massively worse across the board. I do know that the underweight extreme of eating disorder is deadlier much sooner than the overweight extreme, but i don't think its fair to bash people getting weight loss injections on the NHS when overall it reduces NHS spending on the other health conditions they have or would have developed, by improving or preventing those comorbidities. Those getting the injections privately and paying for it are also reducing NHS spending in the long run, so there are merits to the injections for weight loss.

It’s a moot point as spending on EDs specifically anorexia is woefully inadequate thus cutting in some areas is unacceptable and an increase of > 3% a drop in the ocean.

I never understood why obesity isn't considered to have an eating disorder cause.

I've been diagnosed with anorexia in my teens, been underweight and overweight. Now identified as ARFID. When I was overweight I was dismissed and told to go on a diet and no problem I just need to cut down, but underweight told i was mentally ill. My disorder and issue was always the same..I just looked different with a different weight 🙃

It's horrifying to cut back on anorexia funding. As mentioned by PP recovery is better when treatment is swift and it's not left untreated..that would cut costs long-term rather then leaving it to be a chronic illness. But I also think obesity should be treated better too, I think in some situations where mental health could be compounding it, access to therapy should be offered alongside, else your creating a bandaid and not treating the cause. I always thought obesity is a side effect/symptom of something underlying, whether that's emotional/mental health or metabolic/physical issues.

First sentence of footnote 2:

The 2024/25 planned spend for children and young people’s eating disorder services in England is £101.0 million, a real terms increase of 2.9% (or £2.9 million) on the 2023/24 spend (£98.1 million).

It also notes that these figures have been adjusted for inflation, hence "real terms increase".

Yes, it's a postcode lottery as many ICBs are reducing funding but not all. So if overall funding is increasing but it's reducing in some areas, it means that it must be increasing by more than 2.9% in other areas.

Overall funding specifically for young people's eating disorders is still more than what will be spent on weight loss medications for the entire adult population. It's an absolute crying shame that so much of our health service is a postcode lottery but I think your characterisation that huge sums are being diverted from CYP eating disorder treatments to WLI is simply wrong.

Eating disorder services are shocking. That being said, I don’t quite get the comparison between weight loss meds & EDs?

Then you aren’t paying attention - I’ve commissioned in MH and Substance Use - MH gets a lot more money - but, as with all NHS services, need is growing and services can’t keep up. Anything preventative - including WL medication, is very much needed to reduce demand so funding can be directed to in need areas.

You can't make things foolproof against people who are committed to doing something very foolish.

That being said you should be pleased that pharmacies are indeed required to do video calls or in-person appointments to try to reduce the risk to people like your friend who are determined to do themselves harm - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yeklrer39o

OP clearly believes there are deserving people (including those with ED) and undeserving people (obese people) when it comes to NHS resources.

I don’t know why but I think we could all hazard a guess.

What are you even talking about? This is a long term treatment for a chronic condition. What risks are you referring to? And what are your qualifications to assert this so confidently?

Nope it's £2.75m per 250,000 people for treatment in 3 years. It's 9 months treatment not 3 years. Expected 20% weight loss - eg average height woman at 100kg BMI 39 to 80kg BMI 31.2 - should knock a few of them into class 1 obesity (BMI 30) reducing risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, multiple cancers, bone and joint issues etc.

Not sure £2.75m will treat 250,000 with EDs but with £101M for around 3 million people (including adults) I don't think the budget is unfair as it stands.

You know people do pay towards their NHS prescriptions right?

YANBU to expect better treatment for anorexia however it is simply not the case that the NHS are spending £££ on WLI

Im so sorry to hear you are struggling with getting your Daughter help, there is nothing more frustrating than battling to get help when people aren't listening.

But at the same time I promise, despite what the media might be saying, the NHS are not funding weight loss injections for many people at all and in fact are cutting ALL services to help people.

I have a number of health issues and my endocrinologist was fighting so hard for me to have WLI because she felt they would help me (I have hormone issues and a number of other problems which are a massive barrier) and essentially our whole county just cancelled tier 3 weight loss support so the only thing they offer is a 12 week online weight loss support and when I tried to explain to them my complex medical history and presented the food diary showing I had already been eating exactly the way they were advising for 6 months with no success, they had no way to help because they were more or less online slimming world.

My endocrinologist even asked for me to be sent to a different county to get WLI but no one could help. I now get them myself by funding them with credit cards and when kind people use my code it helps a little. But my doctor was the tier 3 weight loss specialist and she said they are so frustrated by the cuts in funding and when she sees people who need help, she cant do a thing and is so frustrated herself.

I promise there isn't massive funding for one thing and not another, services as a whole are struggling and in my county at least, weight loss support is minimal with very long weights and no knowledge of complex medical histories. I am one of the lucky ones that can fund it myself, but many are left struggling.

I hope you manage to find some support.

@HowardTJMoon But people shouldn't be able to lie, there shouldn't be loopholes. They should have to do a video call or in person appointment. So yes they do just give them to anyone.

@FortyElephants They should. Take them until people are at a sensible weight then stop. The risks become too high then.

Cheaper than not providing them.

Most people using the injections ARE being forced to pay for them. It's a tiny minority of people that get them on the NHS.

MH conditions in the UK are woefully underfunded, as is funding for a lot of physical conditions - hence the immense waiting lists.

As others have said, the funding for weight loss drugs is not being taken from elsewhere. Health funding is incredibly complex, but in its simplest form, they've identified weight loss injections as an invest to save.

If co-morbidities currently cost the NHS £2 billion a year, but investing £10 million in weight loss injections a year means that in five years time that will be halved to £1 billion a year, then it is a very good thing (and will make more money available for other conditions like ED in the long term). - (Caveat - numbers completely made up just as an example)

The problem is it is very difficult to make the same invest to save calculations for MH conditions - there needs to be a lot more research and understanding of how they can be identified earlier and what interventions can be put in place early to save the money down the line. Unfortunately the triggers and early warning signs are not well understood to be able to do that effectively for any mental health condition.

I'd like to see more of an investment in school and community counsellors - there is not much I admire about the American school system, but I do like the fact that many secondary schools have counsellors on staff that students can access when they need to for early support and a lot more awareness being raised among young people about things like Kooth (think along the lines of Esther Ranson and Childline adverts from the 80's and 90's).

We need to get some of the key social media influencers onto it (because as much as I hate it, it really is a good way to get through to kids) - get people like KSI, the Sidemen, Mr.Beast and KMK involved in campaigns and you would reach a lot more young people who would then be able to get help earlier.

If we did that, along with looking at other things that are equivalent to weight loss injections where investment now will save a lot more later it would take a lot less time to get the NHS on track and make sure the money is there to treat more severe conditions.

Unfortunately, the system has been so decimated from years of underfunding and unnecessary change that it lacks the capacity to be creative.

The government could also fund it quite easily. However there is such a lack of understanding about how national debt works, with most people believing it works the same as household budgets, that if the government borrowed the necessary funds to do this, Reform and all of the other anti-public sector folks would have a field day!

Edited to caveat about costing being made up as an example

Seems a false equivalency to me.