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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My sister's been sacked - AGAIN!

158 replies

Scottysister · 09/03/2025 11:18

Not so much AIBU but more is ISBU - Is She Being Unreasonable?

My younger sister has just been fired from her third job in seven years. Middle management in the private sector.

She’s coming to stay with DH & me in a couple of days & I’m dreading it. How she’s been picked on/bullied/forced out will be the only topic of conversation. I want to support her but how can I (kindly/nicely) point out to her that her behaviour & personality are a massive factor in what keeps happening? She just doesn’t see it.

She’s early 50’s - not had a partner for 20years or so. No children or friends either. Her work is EVERYTHING to her. She is so passionate about it & expects everyone on her team to be the same. But they aren’t. They have a life outside of work but sadly she doesn’t. Each new job is the best she’s ever had. Until it isn’t. Each new team is absolutely brilliant. Until they aren’t. I do think she gets results and is good at the technical side of her job. Just really bad at the people/relationship side. The hours she works (through choice) are ridiculous.

She’s never been a particularly easy person to be around. Very intense & tightly wound. When we see her we’re all constantly walking on eggshells for fear of saying something that will upset or annoy her. Our elderly mother in particular. Her moods can be awful & she doesn’t take any criticism well. I think over the years the whole family has avoided saying no to her for fear of the explosion of anger & moods. I don’t think we’ve done her any favours with that approach.

I live at the other end of the country so we don’t see each other that often. She comes up maybe two or three times a year. We’re never invited to stay with her. I do message but she’s not great at replying - maybe a thumbs up or a very brief reply. Just says she’s super busy at work. She rarely messages me.

The previous sacking happened because she lost her temper with a junior member of her team & shouted/swore at them about something pretty minor. This was in front of a client. She couldn’t see that she had played any role in events. Kept saying that everyone had it in for her & it had been orchestrated. That she’d been victimised, bullied etc. She came to stay after that & it was awful. Gentle attempts to point out how wrong her behaviour was, didn’t go down well at all. She said I was blaming her & she was the victim in all this. I also suggested she thought about some counselling but she said that was ridiculous & it was the others who needed it not her.

I tried to be positive with suggestions to stop it happening again. Maybe work fewer hours, take time off, get a hobby, keep it professional with the team, try & nip any issues in the bud etc etc. Clearly that all fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know the full detail of what’s happened this time yet but (again) her new team has turned against her. Reported her to HR for various things and she’s out. She sounded so angry on the phone yesterday.

I’ve read about DARVO & a lot of that seems to fit. She thinks she’s the victim because she’s been fired, but her behaviour led to it - again!

How can she not see she’s the common denominator? What’s the best way to have a conversation about this? DH & I can’t just bite our tongues for the duration of the visit. How do you talk to someone who doesn’t listen? Has anyone got any tips or advice? Am dreading it.

So sorry this was really long.

OP posts:
Couchpotato3 · 09/03/2025 12:04

This is not your problem to fix - I hope you're listening to all the people saying this and not blocking the advice like your sister!
I think stopping her from coming might be quite cruel, and a certain amount of listening and empathising is reasonable. Suggesting that she tries self-employment or some coaching might go down a bit better than your previous fixes (counselling etc) as they can be presented as playing to her strengths, rather than pointing out her faults.

Don't let her drag you down - if she goes on moaning beyond the point that you can stand, just be straight with her - "We're very sorry that this has happened, but there's nothing more we can say or do to help at this point, so we're going to go out for a walk/go to the cinema/make a start on dinner etc and change the subject for a while. Talking about it non-stop isn't helping you and we'd like to enjoy our time together".

Smokesandeats · 09/03/2025 12:04

I’m another one who suggests that your sister becomes self employed and works by herself. I know someone similar who kept being asked to leave jobs because she couldn’t get on with people around her. She’s been very successful running her own business on a freelance basis.

DeffoNeedANameChange · 09/03/2025 12:02

If it's anything like my sector, she needs to be aiming for senior management, not middle management. The higher you go, the people are actively looking for total workaholics, and she wouldn't have so much direct contact with those members of the team who didn't quite share her work ethic.

Maybe keep conversation to "next steps" rather than constantly rehashing how everyone's always been against her.

Bigbrommieowner · 09/03/2025 12:02

If it happens once, it might be her or it might be them but 3 times, she needs to see the pattern.

Stop tiptoeing about it. If she wants to kick off, fine.

But it's not your problem to deal with her responses to reasonable suggestions.

TorroFerney · 09/03/2025 12:00

Why can’t she see it’s her - why can’t my dog roller skate. Because they can’t.

not up to you to save her from herself. Or have her to stay.

JFDIYOLO · 09/03/2025 11:59

Don't have her to stay. Cancel it.

Nobody should be walking on eggshells in their own home with a mood drain who has all the self awareness of a hippo with a grudge.

And your poor MUM.

I'd write to her, setting out the fact that if something's happened three times it would be wise to look at the feedback and learn from it.

It's important for all to be able to seek, consider and act on feedback, and for a manager it's super important to be able to reflect and grow.

She'll be on the shock, anger, denial stages right now. It's easy to sink down and stick in the gloomy resentful depressed stage - and climbing up out of it can be hard.

Giving her an environment where she is only going to be reinforcing that can't be helpful.

I'd engage her in conversation about it, but from a distance and in writing so you don't have to listen to her or tiptoe around, especially if she will do nothing to accept accountability.

This usually gets stamped on when suggested on Mumsnet ... But does neurodivergence feature in your family? Intense special interest (IE total focus on work), difficulty forming relationships, reading others and understanding social cues and behaviour, possible meltdowns happening through overwhelm?

Imisscoffee2021 · 09/03/2025 11:59

I would message her as it sounds like a phonecall or face to face she'd bite your head off, and say that she's welcome to visit but you aren't going to be able to spend time discussing only her work situation other than supporting her by hosting her visit, and that if she's happy to visit and talk about other things then you're looking forward to it. If she pushes back just explain that this is a repeated pattern and so is the fallout, and that you feel you can't say what you think at all as it is taken the wrong way and so the conversation becomes extremely one sided and so you don't get to enjoy her company as much as you'd like to.

I had a colleague like this, mot management thankfully, who went from job to job being managed out or having her contract not renewed etc, convinced the world was against her and she wasn't the common denominator.

NaomhPadraigin · 09/03/2025 11:58

It's really hard to be fired from 3 middle management roles, she must be really bad at her job (but good at interviews).

ThisPlumTurtle · 09/03/2025 11:58

Some of this sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. My mother has it and moves from job to job before she's 'pushed out'. It's worth looking into.

Nothatgingerpirate · 09/03/2025 11:54

She sounds ND (like myself) and I'm sorry for the situation.
I managed NOT to work through life (lucky, funding myself).
What was your upbringing like, your parents?

Biglifedecisions · 09/03/2025 11:52

Op you need to take some responsibility too. Why is she coming? Just say you are busy and will see her in the summer.

You said your family’s approach is somewhat to blame, and yet you are continuing in the same vein. Knowing the outcome.

thehorsesareallidiots · 09/03/2025 11:51

Look, she's not going to listen to you. She's probably not capable of listening to you. Not at this point in her life anyway. So if you accepted that her taking stock and accepting that she's the problem, it's her, is off the table, what decision could you make, for you? Have her to stay and simply make vague "mmmm" noises? Tell her straight that she can vent for a bit but you will NOT spend the whole time listening to her bathe in self-pity? Not have her at all?

Porcuporpoise · 09/03/2025 11:50

You could just nod and sympathise. I mean, you're not wrong but equally she's not going to change - is possibly not even capable of change- and that's sad but it's not in your gift to fix. If you want to preserve the relationship I'd suggest you make the visit a busy one with plenty of looking forward to what cones next.

CerealPosterHere · 09/03/2025 11:50

I’m going to go against the grain and say I’d suck it up and let her rant. I would nod and make sympathetic noises. She doesn’t have anyone else to talk to 🤷🏻‍♀️I wouldn’t try and point out it may be her as she doesn’t sound like she’d take it on board. I’d try and suggest the career counselling thing if they can help with this sort of thing though it sounds like she wouldn’t tell the facts to any coach so it may be a waste of money.

caringcarer · 09/03/2025 11:49

She sounds like a nightmare manager. She'd probably do better in a job where she's more or less on her own. I would suggest to her to think about being self employed. Tell her with her skills and work ethic she'll do well.

AgnesX · 09/03/2025 11:48

She's your sister. Have you never had a conversation with her about her behaviour before?

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 09/03/2025 11:47

Had an acquaintance like this, worked in education.
She got pensioned off in her early 50’s, private sector, I think they just didn’t want scandal of sacking her.
She has been the same since we met and has never changed. She has NC with her brother and sister after their parents died as the siblings were ripping her off, bullying her.
Luckily for me she decided I didn’t support her when her mum died (not a lucky occasion!) and blocked me on everything.
I know that’s probably not an option with your sister but she’s not going to change.
If she comes to stay you can either accept the repeated victim hood or challenge her. But be prepared for her to fall out with you.
You could tell her while you are there to support and listen it’s not fair for visits to be a crisis respite service for her.

BurntBroccoli · 09/03/2025 11:44

She sounds like a bully. I wouldn't let her come and stay with you.

thepariscrimefiles · 09/03/2025 11:44

Do you have to have her to stay? How long is she coming for? She clearly has no self awareness about the reasons for her being dismissed three times in seven years. She is obviously a difficult colleague as well as a difficult sister.

What would happen if you withdrew the invitation to stay with you? It doesn't sound very enjoyable.

Vestigially · 09/03/2025 11:43

You can’t fix her, and you shouldn’t try. Either cancel the visit (say work is too busy), tell her you sympathise, but don’t want to hear about it while she’s at your house because you have enough going on yourself, or sit her down and tell her that she needs to think about why she keeps being fired, despite her clear commitment to her various jobs. That the common denominator is her. So what if she explodes? Not your issue.

jeaux90 · 09/03/2025 11:43

I've never really understood these family dynamics where people just put up with this kind of behaviour.

I would have said something years ago as I just can't abide walking on eggshells or pretending someone is a good person when clearly they have anger issues.

And the fact that she was previously fired for bullying says it all.

I'd tell her some home truths quite frankly.

ExpressCheckout · 09/03/2025 11:42

OP, yes, this is your sister and you care. However I do think you are over-thinking and over-analysing this.

She is an adult. You are not responsible for her behaviour or the consequences of her behaviour.

Of course you want to see her and spend time with her. But, you need some rules, and make these clear when she arrives.

E.g., "It's great to see you, and we're happy to have a brief chat about work when you arrive, but after this we are going to do x, y and z..."

Or more straightforwardly, "I appreciate you are going through a tough time, but there is nothing we can help you with this. I think it's best that we talk about different things."

That sounds harsh, but you need to set some rules.

P.S. It might sound as if she would benefit from some professional coaching, so if you do suggest something, this is an option.

Justkeepingplatesspinning · 09/03/2025 11:38

Work needs to be off the table for the duration of the visit. Is it coincidence that she's coming up now or does she know she gets tea and sympathy and a captive audience?
You need to change the third bit of that.
If she thinks she has been sacked unfairly, give her the phone number for ACAS and tell her to phone them for advice. And/or her legal assistance with her union or home insurance if she has either.
That's all you say. Be a stuck record, well you need to see what ACAS say... and then change the subject pdq.
Or if she's domineering and you find it too hard and you've tried that previously, put off her visit until it's not as raw.

CaptainBeanThief · 09/03/2025 11:35

Tell her she can't stay.
Be honest, tell her you can't cope with her behaviour anymore and her inability to take accountability for her own fuck ups.
You are unwilling to walk on eggshells in your own home to accommodate her.
Until she can enter the real world and understand it doesn't revolve around her then she can stay but until then you don't want to hear about how she's the victim or being bullied because you just don't have the mental capacity to deal with the petulance anymore.

curious79 · 09/03/2025 11:33

Don’t try and fix her. You’re not going to fix her. I could’ve written this about my sister!!!
Best thing to do is just listen if you really have to, but otherwise maybe suggest changing the topic so she can try and get over it.
Clearly, if you say to her, ‘have you thought about what you would do differently yourself next time?’ it will go down like a bag of sand. Yet it would be a reasonable question to ask.

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