Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My sister's been sacked - AGAIN!

158 replies

Scottysister · 09/03/2025 11:18

Not so much AIBU but more is ISBU - Is She Being Unreasonable?

My younger sister has just been fired from her third job in seven years. Middle management in the private sector.

She’s coming to stay with DH & me in a couple of days & I’m dreading it. How she’s been picked on/bullied/forced out will be the only topic of conversation. I want to support her but how can I (kindly/nicely) point out to her that her behaviour & personality are a massive factor in what keeps happening? She just doesn’t see it.

She’s early 50’s - not had a partner for 20years or so. No children or friends either. Her work is EVERYTHING to her. She is so passionate about it & expects everyone on her team to be the same. But they aren’t. They have a life outside of work but sadly she doesn’t. Each new job is the best she’s ever had. Until it isn’t. Each new team is absolutely brilliant. Until they aren’t. I do think she gets results and is good at the technical side of her job. Just really bad at the people/relationship side. The hours she works (through choice) are ridiculous.

She’s never been a particularly easy person to be around. Very intense & tightly wound. When we see her we’re all constantly walking on eggshells for fear of saying something that will upset or annoy her. Our elderly mother in particular. Her moods can be awful & she doesn’t take any criticism well. I think over the years the whole family has avoided saying no to her for fear of the explosion of anger & moods. I don’t think we’ve done her any favours with that approach.

I live at the other end of the country so we don’t see each other that often. She comes up maybe two or three times a year. We’re never invited to stay with her. I do message but she’s not great at replying - maybe a thumbs up or a very brief reply. Just says she’s super busy at work. She rarely messages me.

The previous sacking happened because she lost her temper with a junior member of her team & shouted/swore at them about something pretty minor. This was in front of a client. She couldn’t see that she had played any role in events. Kept saying that everyone had it in for her & it had been orchestrated. That she’d been victimised, bullied etc. She came to stay after that & it was awful. Gentle attempts to point out how wrong her behaviour was, didn’t go down well at all. She said I was blaming her & she was the victim in all this. I also suggested she thought about some counselling but she said that was ridiculous & it was the others who needed it not her.

I tried to be positive with suggestions to stop it happening again. Maybe work fewer hours, take time off, get a hobby, keep it professional with the team, try & nip any issues in the bud etc etc. Clearly that all fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know the full detail of what’s happened this time yet but (again) her new team has turned against her. Reported her to HR for various things and she’s out. She sounded so angry on the phone yesterday.

I’ve read about DARVO & a lot of that seems to fit. She thinks she’s the victim because she’s been fired, but her behaviour led to it - again!

How can she not see she’s the common denominator? What’s the best way to have a conversation about this? DH & I can’t just bite our tongues for the duration of the visit. How do you talk to someone who doesn’t listen? Has anyone got any tips or advice? Am dreading it.

So sorry this was really long.

OP posts:
Fins2025 · 09/03/2025 14:18

Maurepas · 09/03/2025 13:07

HR needs to inform staff exactly how they are allowed to relate to each other and what ''behaviour'' is not acceptable no matter how badly another employee performs. DS may be difficult but many work regulations are now very woke. My son lost 1/2 his bonus because he shouted at a young person who was 'lazy'.

HR cannot legislate for every single possible scenario. Workplaces rely on people using their common sense, decency and respect for others as a guide to their behaviour.

There are very few scenarios in which it's acceptable to shout at someone. The only one that springs to mind is if you had to warn them urgently that they were about to do something dangerous.

Lochlorien · 09/03/2025 14:16

If you still feel engaged, keep asking her how she is feeling. She is avoiding her own feelings and projecting everything on to others. This pattern will keep re-occurring until your sister realises that she needs to look deeply at herself and seek counselling. It is a shame because this is her life and even though she may not admit it, she must be feeling hurt and disappointed.

Original poster
Scottysister · 09/03/2025 14:15

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful replies. Will read them properly & reply later this afternoon. Friends over at the moment for lunch. 🙏

OP posts:
aylis · 09/03/2025 14:10

Don't have her to stay. Not just because you're dreading it but because losing her job is the consequence of her actions, and it's probably not the right time to add family critique on to her.

Channellingsophistication · 09/03/2025 14:01

Maurepas · 09/03/2025 13:07

HR needs to inform staff exactly how they are allowed to relate to each other and what ''behaviour'' is not acceptable no matter how badly another employee performs. DS may be difficult but many work regulations are now very woke. My son lost 1/2 his bonus because he shouted at a young person who was 'lazy'.

I don’t think it’s woke to say people shouldn’t be shouted at in the workplace! Your DS got off lightly!.

As to the OP’s situation, I would avoid having her to stay with you if you can. It will be extremely draining for you and your DH. If you cannot avoid it, try to limit her stay and time talking about it.

You will absolutely be wasting your time trying to get her to understand that her behaviour is an issue so I wouldn’t bother trying.

LovelyLeitrim · 09/03/2025 14:00

Maurepas · 09/03/2025 13:07

HR needs to inform staff exactly how they are allowed to relate to each other and what ''behaviour'' is not acceptable no matter how badly another employee performs. DS may be difficult but many work regulations are now very woke. My son lost 1/2 his bonus because he shouted at a young person who was 'lazy'.

Your DS would’ve had a loss of his whole bonus, a disciplinary for shouting at anyone if I were his manager in the workplace.

Honestly, who gives him the right to “manage” someone like that?

HelenWheels · 09/03/2025 13:59

i agree with do nothing approach.
it will be easier for you
just nod

Hdjdb42 · 09/03/2025 13:59

I'd cancel it by saying we were ill. I wouldn't have her over for a while.

Dfekwkhe · 09/03/2025 13:59

If just listen to her and be a supportive sis. You’re not going to change her. Why not suggest you do something lovely together to keep her mind off her problems. If you don’t see her that much or talk very often how do you know that Iit is her who is in the wrong. I’d offer a shoulder to cry on

dottydodah · 09/03/2025 13:58

I think just say "Look Sally ,I know its rough for you .but what can u do?" Suggest trips out to places nearby :NT houses . local villages ,market towns and so on .If she starts on "Its so unfair!" say You like to see her but want to talk about other things .I feel sorry for her TBH .Lots of older staff are getting pushed out, as younger teams have a softer approach to work now.You say work is her life so she will take it hard .

Hellskitchen24 · 09/03/2025 13:57

You could be describing one of my relatives. 50s, not had a relationship in 20 plus years, no kids, all career, never even cared for a houseplant. Nothing is ever her fault, everything must be done her way, the focus of every conversation must revolve around her, and she’s ALWAYS the victim. She’s probably one of the most toxic people I’ve ever met, and bitter too. I totally cut her off last year after a big falling out and it’s the best thing I ever did.

LovelyLeitrim · 09/03/2025 13:56

Hey Sis

What’s the common denominator in all these sackings….. you! You need to think about that.

DBD1975 · 09/03/2025 13:47

Just to add to my previous post, I don't think getting fired every several years is that bad. I have a family member in their 50's who literally gets fired every 6 months!
They are very personable, very well presented and very good at talking themselves in to jobs which exceed their capabilities!

Msmoonpie · 09/03/2025 13:44

Maurepas · 09/03/2025 13:07

HR needs to inform staff exactly how they are allowed to relate to each other and what ''behaviour'' is not acceptable no matter how badly another employee performs. DS may be difficult but many work regulations are now very woke. My son lost 1/2 his bonus because he shouted at a young person who was 'lazy'.

Seriously ? You do not shout at people in the workplace. That is unacceptable.

You can discipline an employee- all kinds of way but there is no need for that at all.

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 09/03/2025 13:43

curious79 · 09/03/2025 11:33

Don’t try and fix her. You’re not going to fix her. I could’ve written this about my sister!!!
Best thing to do is just listen if you really have to, but otherwise maybe suggest changing the topic so she can try and get over it.
Clearly, if you say to her, ‘have you thought about what you would do differently yourself next time?’ it will go down like a bag of sand. Yet it would be a reasonable question to ask.

THIS!
My sister is this sort of person - she is quite judgmental of people (including me) and overly critical if they don't do things the way she would (or has advised them to). She is retired now but this also caused her unhappiness and some friction sometimes at work. She can't understand why this is not a good idea though she cannot bear to be criticised or told what to do herself. She is capable of being very kind and is quite easily hurt by remarks from other people. I realise that I am the only family left that she can talk about it to, so I must listen and not frankly point out that she was wrong. I try to gently suggest the other person's point of view or tell her it is best to only give advice or involve herself in friends' problems if actually asked. So, please let her come and vent (as others have said, then getting her to talk about other, less inflammatory matters too, if you can). It is very difficult.@

Msmoonpie · 09/03/2025 13:42

I would do some tough love.

Tell her the truth and don’t have her to stay or she might try and move in. She sounds exactly the type to take advantage.

DBD1975 · 09/03/2025 13:41

Very difficult situation and I hope she values your support. It sounds like you are the only family she can vent to and she needs to vent.
If she is good at the technical and not so good at the people management she needs a role which plays to her strengths so purely technical and no people management.
Those jobs will be out there you just need to try and suggest she finds one. She would be a lot happier, I managed people for many years and basically the majority were lovely but the few which were a pain in the backside still haunt me to this day.
I now work in a role where I don't manage anyone and it is bliss.

PassingStranger · 09/03/2025 13:40

Scottysister · 09/03/2025 11:18

Not so much AIBU but more is ISBU - Is She Being Unreasonable?

My younger sister has just been fired from her third job in seven years. Middle management in the private sector.

She’s coming to stay with DH & me in a couple of days & I’m dreading it. How she’s been picked on/bullied/forced out will be the only topic of conversation. I want to support her but how can I (kindly/nicely) point out to her that her behaviour & personality are a massive factor in what keeps happening? She just doesn’t see it.

She’s early 50’s - not had a partner for 20years or so. No children or friends either. Her work is EVERYTHING to her. She is so passionate about it & expects everyone on her team to be the same. But they aren’t. They have a life outside of work but sadly she doesn’t. Each new job is the best she’s ever had. Until it isn’t. Each new team is absolutely brilliant. Until they aren’t. I do think she gets results and is good at the technical side of her job. Just really bad at the people/relationship side. The hours she works (through choice) are ridiculous.

She’s never been a particularly easy person to be around. Very intense & tightly wound. When we see her we’re all constantly walking on eggshells for fear of saying something that will upset or annoy her. Our elderly mother in particular. Her moods can be awful & she doesn’t take any criticism well. I think over the years the whole family has avoided saying no to her for fear of the explosion of anger & moods. I don’t think we’ve done her any favours with that approach.

I live at the other end of the country so we don’t see each other that often. She comes up maybe two or three times a year. We’re never invited to stay with her. I do message but she’s not great at replying - maybe a thumbs up or a very brief reply. Just says she’s super busy at work. She rarely messages me.

The previous sacking happened because she lost her temper with a junior member of her team & shouted/swore at them about something pretty minor. This was in front of a client. She couldn’t see that she had played any role in events. Kept saying that everyone had it in for her & it had been orchestrated. That she’d been victimised, bullied etc. She came to stay after that & it was awful. Gentle attempts to point out how wrong her behaviour was, didn’t go down well at all. She said I was blaming her & she was the victim in all this. I also suggested she thought about some counselling but she said that was ridiculous & it was the others who needed it not her.

I tried to be positive with suggestions to stop it happening again. Maybe work fewer hours, take time off, get a hobby, keep it professional with the team, try & nip any issues in the bud etc etc. Clearly that all fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know the full detail of what’s happened this time yet but (again) her new team has turned against her. Reported her to HR for various things and she’s out. She sounded so angry on the phone yesterday.

I’ve read about DARVO & a lot of that seems to fit. She thinks she’s the victim because she’s been fired, but her behaviour led to it - again!

How can she not see she’s the common denominator? What’s the best way to have a conversation about this? DH & I can’t just bite our tongues for the duration of the visit. How do you talk to someone who doesn’t listen? Has anyone got any tips or advice? Am dreading it.

So sorry this was really long.

Why is it your problem. Do.nothing. you say you aren't really that close either.
Dont burden yourself.

Diningtableornot · 09/03/2025 13:40

Such a difficult one. You might try a broken record approach- keep saying, I know you see it like that but it seems to me that you play a big part in these crises and nothing will change until you do.
Or you could keep saying, Live you sis, but I can’t stand hearing any more about this. Let’s put a film on and have a drink.
Theres no point in gently trying to talk her round.

PersonaPersona · 09/03/2025 13:38

How is she getting references for new jobs if she's been sacked three times?

Tessisme · 09/03/2025 13:37

Phineyj · 09/03/2025 13:30

Do you have an Alexa? I've got an autistic 12 year old who can go on and on and ooonnnn and setting a timer sometimes works and you can "blame" the timer.

And then set it for the same period of time while you moan about the weather/Trump/potholes? 😂

That is a brilliant idea! DP bangs on for hours about his latest special interest and I'm usually willing my phone to ring. I do try to be interested, but I honestly don't care about the life story of some obscure actor from the 1940s or how an amplifier works. My brain is already full of my own weird obsessions!

ilovesooty · 09/03/2025 13:31

Maurepas · 09/03/2025 13:07

HR needs to inform staff exactly how they are allowed to relate to each other and what ''behaviour'' is not acceptable no matter how badly another employee performs. DS may be difficult but many work regulations are now very woke. My son lost 1/2 his bonus because he shouted at a young person who was 'lazy'.

What's "woke" about expecting people to challenge under performance without being aggressive?

Fins2025 · 09/03/2025 13:31

I work with a version of your sister. She is in complete denial about her own behaviour and how it affects workplace relationships. She is super clever, hardworking and really very nice until you disagree with her or overrule her (I am senior to her). Then she melts down. It's such a problem as her lack of self awareness means that it's likely she will be fired due to conduct.

Phineyj · 09/03/2025 13:30

Do you have an Alexa? I've got an autistic 12 year old who can go on and on and ooonnnn and setting a timer sometimes works and you can "blame" the timer.

And then set it for the same period of time while you moan about the weather/Trump/potholes? 😂

Autumn1990 · 09/03/2025 13:29

Could she go self employed ? She might find that much easier

Swipe left for the next trending thread