Time to call out shit parenting!

Personally I think the systemic attack and devaluing of parenting in our tax system and the long hours we work compared to anywhere else in Europe are more significant reasons than parents don’t care.

There will be some totally awful parents, but the sheer numbers mean it’s likely it’s mum and dad trying to get ready for work and leave for the childminder in time and not supervising the brushing.

Ultimately if you require parents to both work long hours with high stress and housing costs (as is the case for many in the south east in particular), there are just less available hours for parenting.

We are one of the few countries that doesn’t allow for tax deductions for dependents.

What is to be achieved by telling parents “you must do better” over and over? Generally that’s a poor strategy for change.

There are a couple of very 'middleclass' things that are really bad for kids teeth. Dried fruit, like mango, pineapple and raisins - they stick in teeth and rot them. And also milk alternatives. No calcium and added sugars.

I had a friend who's kids teeth got pulled because of the above... and not brushing properly.

This is not a new thing. Lots of kids had dental decay at my primary school in the 70s. It was common for kids to have fillings and teeth out. Our parents were told by health visitors to give ribena as the main drink for the vitamin C. I have a feeling we had a dentist visit the school to check teeth as well as a nit nurse.

Yes there is a wave of shit parenting, not just this but kids with no sen going to school in nappies and other things that are very basic parenting fails. I think people are largely burnt out by two job households and still not making ends meet, but regardless kids need to be parented.

My niece had to get some baby teeth removed. Dentist said she ate too
much fruit. My sister felt awful. Kids of teeth brushing too.

Some children won't brush their teeth or allow them to be brushed - neurodiversity or sensation sensitivity or gag reflex so brushing may not be possible.

I agree parents need to be on top of this but advice in those circumstances is poor.

I'd really like to see health and safety campaigns funded again. They worked when I was growing up and support parents ill equipped at raising kids.

I'd also like to see parenting in the national curriculum.

I brush my teeth 3 times a day and my children's the same on non-school days so personally I think adding brushing after lunch at school for all kids would be a good thing and hopefully help those who aren't supported to do it properly at home.
For anyone with a predisposition to dental issues/gum problems, may I suggest giving xylitol a try. Regular use changes the bacterial composition of your mouth and is meant to suppress the "bad" bacteria responsible for inflammation and tooth decay.

I remember getting told about teeth brushing and dental hygiene at primary school 45 years ago.

this isn’t new

My youngest had tooth decay from very young and had teeth removed in hospital. Her diet was great but despite me being specifically told that breast milk doesn't harm teeth it must have been that. The decay was consistent with where fluids hit the teeth and she only drank water or cow's milk other than breastfeeding. She brushed her teeth fine but fed overnight as we coslept until quite late.

I know I was judged for it, but sometimes there are benign reasons.

Yes, this!!

Whilst I agree with a lot of what people are saying - the whole thing about "extractions should be totally unnecessary in kids".....err, my son's first molar on each side at the bottom (baby teeth) came through with practically no enamel on them. Despite loads of effort with brushing etc, they just crumbled. He's had one extracted as it was causing lots of pain and is on a waiting list for the other.

Apparently it's quite common, he did have antibiotics as a baby (bronchiolitis and tonsillitis) I also had to have them when pregnant (severe ear infection & burst eardrum) so perhaps that caused it. More guilt.

I feel really judged whenever it's mentioned! It's not that we didn't brush his teeth/make him brush them!

Yes but - this happened when I was at school in the 80s. You had to bring in your toothbrush and we were all given disclosing tablets to spot the plaque. It’s not new.

Of course parents should do this. But it’s cost efficient to teach kids to clean their teeth if it saves the NHS on the cost of them not knowing how. It’s a business decision.

I had excellent, engaged parents who I am absolutely certain taught me to brush my teeth.... but I have very very clear memories of the dentist who came to the school and gave us a little presentation on the importance of brushing and a lesson in how to do it.

Just like most parents teach their children about safety and what to do in an emergency, but there's something about having the two police officers turning up at school to give a presentation that really bangs the message home.

Obviusly, a dentist turning up is not going to help with stopping children from being given giant packets of haribo or whatever, but my point is that I don't think it's a bad thing to send these sort of people into schools, even when the parenting is largely on point.

I take DS to a chiropractor twice a year. Sometimes, one of the main benefits is that she tells him things that I have told him, but throws in loads of scientific words and her authority as a specialist, and he listens to her in a way that he doesn't to me.

I do worry about the future adults who as kids have been allowed to watch screens all day, eat sugar and not have to do basic life tasks like brush teeth, tie shoe laces etc.

I have observed a lot of things on the school run like parents giving kids a big bag of Haribo in the buggy and a phone screen when they come out of nursery. Tubes of Pringles, etc.

Of course it’s not all parents. but I guess the schools try and put these things in place to help the kids who aren’t getting this stuff at home.

I am constantly worrying about my kids having too much screen time or sugar - it’s such a balancing act from banning it all together and allowing in moderation.

My 8 year old hates having her teeth brushed. Don’t really know why, just loathes it. I will literally sit on top of her to do it for her if I need to (I usually don’t - she will usually do it under duress).

It’s a real source of stress and it would be sooo easy to just..not bother. But I am her mum and this is my job.

As someone who has worked with very deprived areas in schools I can say from my experience that whilst there are a small minority of crap parents who don't brush their children's teeth and have no care for their child's dental hygiene. In the majority of cases, children with very poor dental hygiene are coming from very chaotic households where the primary care giver has an addiction (to alcohol, drugs, gambling) or the primary care giver has very poor mental health needs or the primary care giver has significant physical health needs that are not been met at home. In some cases it is the child themselves with very poor mental health or special needs where due to sensory issues brushing teeth is very very difficult and the family are poorly supported to help the child.

Unfortunately many years ago there used to be a whole host of support services/ charities which supported parents with addiction issues/ poor mental health/ SN ect. As schools we could refer children and sign post to these services. Some of these services and charities have simple help like someone popping over and helping the children get ready for school where the primary care giver was suffering very poor mental health or addiction issues. Others helped children where one of the family members had significant special needs meaning that other children were having to do quite a bit of caring or sorting themselves out for school. This has all been decimated. The bar for social services intervention is very high. Many children and indeed adults are not able to access NHS dentistry and for some parents the cost of private dentists are too high.

It's not as simple as just crap parenting.

The same among my kids. I've got five (all now adult who grew up in the times you could get a dentist and they all went every six months). Four of them have perfect teeth, never had a dental intervention in their lives. I used to clamp them between my knees to brush their teeth, as otherwise they would run off, but they all had their teeth brushed the same amount and the same way. They all had the same diet. But my eldest DD, I was very poorly during pregnancy and she was very ill on and off through childhood. She has bad teeth, a malformed jaw and has had dental operations (and max fac ops) to sort things out.

i remember at primary school there were a few kids with rotten teeth. This was in the 1980s. Kids that always came in with really bad nits, or dirty clothes I dont think teachers were expected to help them or do anything about it.

Teachers have to do a lot more nurturing than they did previously, especially in the younger classes, but I dont think its that parenting is worse. I think its just that schools take more notice of individual children and their individual development, and if a child hasnt been demonstrated good hygiene at home, then having it taught as a group with everyone doing it, that theyll have a much better chance than they did back in my school days.

I’d personally be mortified if my child had tooth decay in their baby teeth. There have been times where I’ve been fit to pull my hair out trying to get the teeth brushed. The patience and perseverance required to get past that tricky phase and back into a good routine are probably up there in my life’s greatest achievements and I’ve a professional qualification. I have great empathy for parents going through it, but no sympathy for a parent that just gives up as it’s surely not an option?!

OK, say it is as simple as 'poor parenting' alone (although you have already excluded a portion of families due to SEN), what would you do about it? Not have the programmes in school and wait until children suffer so much they need multiple extractions and 'significant harm' threshold is reached, then involve Social Care? The cost of that would be enormous and completely unfeasible from a practical point of view.

I'm not even totally disagreeing with you (although I think the picture is often more nuanced), but often these interventions are cheaper, easier and raise quality of life faster / more reliably.

My side of the family is similar. DF had all his teeth out at 42 due to the state of them, and that was in the 90s. I feel like I'm running to stay where I am with dental hygiene and my side of the sink is the one full of all the different sizes of interdental brushes for different gaps, retainer as my teeth never stop trying to move, GC tooth mousse to calcify mine and DS's teeth etc while DH is just "brush and done" with normal Colgate. My other child seems to have inherited DH's perfect teeth though thankfully.

Nah, I think it's your misspelling of Naga that upset her😁