Time to call out shit parenting!

If you can access it at all - there are no nhs dentists currently available even for children within 50 miles of my postcode, so it is a waiting game to try and get registered the second any become open for new patients. It took my sister 4 years to get her children in somewhere as patients. Private is not an option for some people especially when you are paycheck to paycheck as it is.

I agree to an extent.

But it's also part of a bigger problem. I don't think a lot of these parents "can't be bothered" to brush their kids teeth. I think the parents themselves are often struggling with issues such as poverty, depression, trauma, social isolation, lack of education / awareness, possibly learning difficulties.

Yes, I'm sure there are some who just can't be bothered, but it's a much bigger problem than that.

I don't know what alternate universe I was in but I'm the 80s and 90s I drank a huge amount of sugary strong squash! And orange juice. And Sunny D was huge too.

Squash and fruit shoots are mostly sugar free these days aren't they? Not that artificial sweetener is good, but it doesn't rot teeth on the same way to my knowledge

I’ve worked in the NHS for twenty years. Extracting baby teeth isn’t a new thing. But waiting lists are getting longer and longer. I’m not sure it should be a teachers responsibility every day but sessions on nutrition and oral health could work in education. Not sure how they can work brushing their teeth every day/afternoon whatever on top of a very busy curriculum and all the challenges they already face.

Parents are the ones that bring their children into the world and it’s ultimately their responsibility! Teachers are there to teach.

It’s a very small percentage of children that have them extracted due to a medical reason.Im not including orthodontics here.

Theres a lack of education on nutrition and oral hygiene, some families really don’t understand it/have never been taught it themselves. This is where we miss places like sure start centres and similar where parents got this kind of support. Unfortunately poverty and areas of deprivation see more teeth decay.

Some just aren’t arsed what their kids are eating or not brushing their teeth etc and are very blasé when they come to hospital where their children have most/all their baby teeth are extracted before they even start school.

Access to dentists of course is an issue but we are also at a time where many parents don’t like to be ‘told’ what to do with ‘their’ children by medical professionals/teachers etc.

In some districts health care professionals do visit schools and do dental/oral hygiene sessions but due to funding this is often cut or not even offered.

Oh. Well that is something else entirely, I misunderstood.

My worry about this, as someone who has worked in home-school relationships, is that it will actually move teeth hygiene out of the home for some parents. They will think of it as something they don’t have to think about, and that’s worrying for weekends / holidays.

Better to give out toothbrushes, scare them shitless with some pictures of black teeth, and teach them how to do it properly in upper primary. That said, I remember one kid in DD’s Year 1 class having to have five extractions. I’m not sure it’s ideal but he became a cautionary tale in our house “you’re not doing the back teeth, you need to make sure every tooth is clean or you’ll end up having to have them taken out by the dentist like poor xxx”

Interesting.

My brother and I had basically the same upbringing but his teeth are crumbling now.

I know he had a lot of ear infections as a child. My mother was obsessed with him covering his ears if it was cold.

Mine are fairly good, except from the fillings a crap dentist did when I was in my early teens. I had not had any fillings until then.

We are late 50s so not a new thing.

There was a TV documentary a while ago and the dentist (I don't know if they have another name working in a hospital) said tooth decay was the one thing that absolutely was the parents' fault.

But then they interviewed some parents, one who always bought his kids sweets if he went to the local shop.

It is absolutely NOT just a couple of minutes to support 30 children with teeth brushing.
How many sinks are available, how many can share a sink at a time, where are the toothbrushes stored, how to store them all separately, hygienically and clearly named, who's supervising the children not currently brushing their teeth, what activity can be set while the teeth brushing is in progress when every child will need to stop and brush teeth, who supports the children that don't want to brush teeth but should still be encouraged?
This will never take 2 mins in a school environment, poor parenting shouldn't mean that an entire class loses 30mins of education a day!!!

I was born in the 70s and remember someone coming into my school (I think from Maclean's?) probably when I was about 6 or 7, and teaching us all how to brush our teeth. We also got a free brush and stickers I think.

It was brilliant and thorough and I think it should be in every school.

I don't remember my parents teaching me but I'm sure they did, but I wasn't really doing it correctly until I had that school intervention and ended up with lots of fillings.

I'd be intertested to know how that tracks with NHS denistry becoming harder to access.

When we moved here we had no idea lack of NHS dentists was an issue - and even then many dentists will try and take the kids on as NHS - but now none of them have places.

It's a problems that's just spread and got worse over the years.

Chatgpt says that rates of tooth decay in children is significantly lower than in the 80s and 90s.

So we're "better" parents now apparently.

£40 million spent on teeth extraction for children is societal abuse. So unnecessary and such a waste.

My eldest had a tooth extracted - it wasn't decay - her dentist spotted it was sinking and the worry was it would damage tooth below - she was sent to an orthodontist who agreeded it needed to come out - so it was taken out.

They've all also had some milk teeth out for orthodontist work and some as the tooth below had come up behind milk teeth that were still hanging on. I know other kids who've had similar.

So some of that's going to be gentics, infections or even accidental injuries.

We've been questioned closely by some dentists because two of our kids have weaker thinner enamel - the big advance my kids have had is regular check ups with an NHS denstist - so they got floride added or were prescibed toothpast with additional floride in. Any brushing deficience were picked up and worked on together. There are no NHS dentist in this area now for people not already on lists- even for kids.

One of the dentists questioned our chidlcare arrangements - as she said in her experience frequent grandparent childcare was a cause of decay as so many gave sweets and fizzy drinks and they usually weren't ones having to deal with kids with bad teeth - watching them being wheeling in for extractions.

I do agree not brushing in inexcusible - and I say that with one child it was a huge challenge with - but we persisted tried eveything to make it easier but ultimately they needed to be brushed twice a day - and having parental authoity ( and no that doesn't mean phycical abuse ) makes a huge difference there.

Did I say anything that suggested I didn't?

Have you noticed it is in line with the slow creep of poverty, job insecurity and people working 2 jobs?

Well you used to be able to take your kids to this place called a dentist for free and get dental hygiene advice on when to start brushing etc. Since Covid, it's become almost impossible to get an NHS dentist so people who can't afford to go private are just going without, and given that they obviously needed the valuable advice on how to brush etc that dentists used to give out, this is the result! Would it cost £40 million if the NHS didn't leave kids teeth until they were so bad they were falling out of their heads and instead actually funded enough dentists for all children to have one?

You need to ask why some parents are crap parents.

Generations of poverty, ill health, worklessness, crime, drugs, prostitution, you name it. Women bearing the brunt because feckless fathers are nowhere to be seen.

Those of you saying no excuse, well maybe not excuses but definitely reasons.

Maybe volunteer at a food bank or women's refuge then you might understand why toothbrushing might not be a priority for some families.

I'd hazard a guess most if us here are sitting in secure, warm homes with food in the fridge and time and inclination to debate this on Mumsnet. We have no idea.

Wasn’t it found that SureStart tended to attract the sort of parents who weren’t really in need of help or guidance anyway? I seem to remember that the sort of parents who would have benefited most, tended to stay away, assuming it’d consist of bossy MC types pointing out their failings and telling them what to do.

Yes!
I honestly doesn’t even understand why parents introduce toddlers to soft drinks, if all they know is water, they will like it.
Selfish behaviour from parents who want to feel good by treating their children - even if they are harming them in the long run.

Naga. Not Nagga.

I am really troubled by the slow (actually, not that slow) creep of what schools are expected to provide children. It's no longer just education but personal care (teachers having to change nappies of 5+ year olds and not able to refuse because it's "discrimination"), food (teachers buying children breakfast from their own money because hungry children can't concentrate), social care, and on and on and on. It might be alright if schools were funded to employ people specifically for all these other aspects but they don't.

What did they spend per child in the 70s compared to now? I don't know but assume you have the figures to be able to compare? They wouldn't have admitted children to hospital then as they just did it in the dentist chair. So less ££

It mainly comes down to poverty, not phones. Even if toothbrushes and tooth paste are being provided for free, it needs to include the parents in the home so that kids learn from mum and dad. It might be a quid to buy…but a quid can be a meal. And if you can’t afford petrol or a bus fare and the dentist isn’t in walking distance then how do you access free dental care?

This is different to being told about teeth brushing and dental hygiene. Most schools do lessons on dental hygiene and why this is important as part of PSCHE lessons and also in science. This is talking about everyday standard (usually home based) teeth brushing being handed over to schools for them to complete with children daily.

i haven’t read the whole thread but please consider that you are oversimplify things and creating stigma by drawing a direct line between decay, tooth extractions and bad parenting. There are fairly common but rarely spoken about conditions that can lead to decay and extractions despite best efforts of parents and children.
Please bring some balance and by all means discuss the benefits of schools supporting on dental health but calm down the vitriol please.
Thanks

Which can't be true because everyone on this thread makes their kids and grandkids brush!

And I don’t agree with teacher’s having to do brushing in school. But I do think we must look at making parental work, work for children.