Time to call out shit parenting!

I read a book about the beginnings of health visiting and it was eye opening!

I always remember what the lady that ran a weaning class said back when my dd was a baby. It's better to have a healthy baby then a happy baby when someone mentioned her baby just screams at toothbrushing. It stayed with me including when I had ds with severe sen who bites the toothbrush like jaws on crack. All three of my kids have beautiful clean teeth

Oranurse is an unflavoured, non foaming toothpaste.Many with sensory issues use it. You may have to buy it online. If you rinse or brush with water you are rinsing away protective fluoride and stopping Ngany of toothpastes benefits.

I think people sometimes forget how many different serious issues teachers had to deal with in the past.

My gran was a teacher. I'm a bit vague how long ago, but she died aged 95 a decade ago so a long time ago. She used to tell me about having to buy handkerchiefs to clean kids faces that were literally black with dirt. She would spray a dab of perfume on for them because some kids were rarely bathed and smelled so badly. The nit nurse came into class and there were often kids with bed bug bites, fleas etc. Some she wouldn't see for weeks because of parents working and not noticing their kids out of school. I remember being horrified about some of her stories of kids in poverty (and she didn't teach in a particularly bad area).

I was an early 80s baby. My diet was pretty atrocious - oven food almost every night. Walls banger sausages (battered sausages) and similar rubbish. Primary school only served chips plus hot dog/battered fish type stuff. High School was even worse - they literally just sold chips. In comparison school meals are much better now.

I think the biggest issue is that people's expectations have risen hugely from when I was a child (and absolutely incomparable to when my gran was a teacher), but services have been cut.

I hate cleaning my teeth, the mint taste of toothpaste is awful but I'm better with the lime one I found in poundland.

I have to tell dgs to just brush with water as again he loathes the taste of toothpaste, even my lime one.

MIH is mostly a cosmetic problem , white spots on teeth, the vast majority of teeth with MIH are no more prone to decay than any other teeth. Only a tiny minority of people with MIH , which mostly only affects first adult molars and incisors , have weakened teeth. Likewise amelogenesis imperfecta and dentnogenesis imperfecta are very rare.

The vast,vast majority of teeth needing extraction are because of poor dietary habits and choices .

@Lollygaggle depressing

Utterly ridiculous and it’s shit, lazy parenting for the most part, brushing your kids teeth is part of looking after them and a responsibility of being a parent. It’s 4 mins a day total, it’s disgusting people just aren’t brushing their kids teeth

Because they don't make money and they cost Public Health a lot. Maybe we will see more as prevention starts to emerge as a priority in healthcare, but we've been trying to put plasters on arterial wounds for over a decade. The fact many families now don't even have a dentist is a case in point for why trends for oral hygiene in kids are getting to the point extractions are needed. I didn't see any links to stats from the previous poster so I am assuming the 1 in 8 stat (12.5% of kids in UK with MIH) are largely being left untreated until they do cause decay, which is presumably preventable with timely treatment.

When my children were little 20+ years ago my MiL was a recently retired primary school teacher. She used to tell me the minimum she expected of a child entering Reception was that they could wipe their own bottoms and sit still most of the time. In a generation this seems to have flown out of the window.

Processed foods have a lot of added extras , including sugar . We are number two in the world for eating processed food.

Most cases of MIH are very mild with just white spots on the teeth , it’s a cosmetic problem for the vast majority of children and does not make teeth weaker or more prone to decay. In the past many cases of MIH were misdiagnosed as fluorosis .

I’ve taken thousands of teeth out for children and referred many for extractions, the youngest 18 months old. A tiny minority have been for trauma or decay associated with MIH , the vast,vast,vast majority for decay caused by poor dietary choices.

The heartbreaking thing is that most will be back for more treatment as the biggest predictor for poor oral health in adulthood is extractions in childhood.

You would think the “short ,sharp,shock” of having a GA and your child in hospital would change things but people accept they and their family have “weak teeth” and that dental treatment is normal , whereas for the vast majority they and their family have a weak diet and further treatment is very,very preventable. Research shows the child who has teeth out early will go on to be the child who has more and more invasive dental treatment.

I have many families with children with extreme difficulties who prioritise oral care and the huge physical, time,care barriers to oral care have raised children with excellent oral health.

I also have families who refuse to believe that their “healthy” diet of smoothies, homemade flapjacks and honied fruit teas is causing decay , let alone their refusal to use fluoride toothpastes or even ones with hydroxyapatite.

In general second and subsequent children have worse dental health than their first born siblings , mainly because they are introduced to sugary foods earlier following their older siblings diet, although less time supervising toothbrushing may also have a role.

A few years ago we used to have Swedish dentists coming to my area to train. This is because in the U.K. there is so much decay they just don’t see in Sweden. It’s down to diet.

1 in 8 is 12.5% of the children, so if you have 23% needing extractions that is over half that are having them due to organic issues forming enamel and dentine rather than poor oral health.

*edit to say it is 23% with decay, not necessarily even needing extractions.

I agree about the obese children problem. It’s quite upsetting seeing obese primary school kids and I can’t fathom how parents can’t control how kids eat.
As someone who’s struggled with their weight (as an adult) it really gets to me. I’m not sure what the answer as we all know how hard parenting is.

Yes, that is the real story.
How do we always get suckered in to blaming the mum?

I know someone who doesn't parent her children well at all. She lies about their health to get appointments, she has a 3 year old she says doesn't sleep and screams all night so she got melatonin prescribed. I was there one day, she fed him sweets and fruit shoot, then said it didn't matter about the sugar as she has medication to help him sleep. It breaks my heart for the poor little lad. She does nothing but sit on the sofa and her husband does everything, including working 12 hour shifts and everything in the house. She really doesn't deserve to have children and I don't know how her husband puts up with it.

DD2 was still supposed to be seen every 3 months to get floride varnish - back teeth enamel is weak - then covid hit and that didn't happen.

Even now 5 year later we're still on one a year visits though supposed to soon go back to 6 months. The 3 month dental nurse floride only clinic never got set back up. DD2 was luckily fine - though when she was seen was perscirbed higher floride tooth paste - but the need for that's now gone.

So it's not hard to see how if 1 in 8 kids have congenital malformation of tooth enamel - and due to covid and later lack of NHS dentist access the prevenative work my kids got has been as accessible that will be adding to wait lists as well.

1 in 8 children have it apparently, so not something parents can help
www.kch.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/pl-1074.1-molar-incisor-hypomineralisation-mih-in-children.pdf

Problem is it becomes a cycle. I don’t think this is new though. I remember them coming into our school and having a session on proper tooth brushing. Red substance applied to teeth and we had to brush it off and it was applied again to see what we had missed? If I remember properly. This was in the 1980s.

But people who were poorly parented have kids who they in turn do not know how to parent and the cycle continues.

Another one here who remembers being taught about dental hygiene at school in the 80s. I thinks it's ridiculous to just blame the parents. I don't think there are less disengaged parents these days, I think part of the dental crisis is because so much money has been cut from services that they don't have what we used to have. I feel very fortunate my children have had access to a dentist from birth, and they have grown up with having regular dental checks. That is a luxury which I am grateful for, which is ridiculous because it shouldn't be a luxury. My older two have never had issues but my third had a cavity which was caught early because the dentist saw it early on. I thought I was doing great with their teeth brushing but i obviously wasn't. There was no sign of decay I could see, and no pain reported. If left it may have been a extraction, as it was it was sorted easily and the tooth has been kept.

My friends kid had congenital malformation of tooth enamel (forget what it's called), which can be genetic or caused by antibiotics also, and sadly also was judged by parents at school.

That's likely not the whole picture. I've known kids have teeth extractions for what would have been totally treatable dental issues that have deteriorated due to years long waiting lists for community dentist, dental hospital etc.

A friend's child had obvious problems with teeth from when they first came through and was taken to dentist, brushed them every day avoided sugar etc but it was over 2 years before they were actually seen at dental hospital by which time it was too late as teeth had totally broken down.

I'm not suggesting this kind of congenital dental problem is common, but I imagine quite a few of those extractions could have been saved earlier.

However, absolutely parents have to be brushing. It's extremely important! It's a shame the teachers are having to teach this but I'm glad someone is!

Agree.. my granddaughter has been brushing her little teeth since they popped up..she is four now it's part of her routine in the morning and bedtime.

@RedHot2025 and @Laurmolonlabe - you are both completely right. The more the school does to support, the less some parents do.

The huge problem in schools is that children aren't taught how to regulate. When you take away the slightly tricky parts of parenting you also take away from parents the opportunity to show some self regulation and actually step up to the ask of being a parent.

Free breakfast clubs won't get kids to school on time. More children will turn up hungry as they know the school will have food.

The message parents need to be receiving is that are responsible for their children and their children's happiness and development.

It makes me so cross as I see all the time that the 'support' we provide is actually making children's lives worse.