Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

Both me and my sister were smacked by my dad as kids (grew up in Eastern Europe). So pretty much all of my classmates.

Did not change a thing. Literally. The kids who were problematic remained problematic - stealing, running away, skipping school. No amount of punishment changed them.

What would have changed them is adults actually trying to learn why these kids behaved in the way they did and what other issues they were dealing with.

Hitting a child will make them afraid of you and hate you. Hit them hard and they probably hit you back when they old/ strong enough to do that.

Nothing whatsoever to do with gentle parenting though is it?

I don't believe in smacking children and never hit my three (who are now all older teens and young adults). But that didn't mean absence of discipline, they absolutely knew their boundaries and that when me or their dad said NO, we meant it.

I roll my eyes hugely at the style of parenting which sees a parent crouched down beside a child who has just behaved appallingly saying "Now Ophelia, I can see you are upset and angry. So let's talk about why you are feeling that way and how you can make choices to deal with this differently next time."

I don't really know if theres a clear definition of "gentle parenting".

I've never hit my kids. I've shouted a handful of times and apologised later for that.

Tbh we are lucky to have well behaved kids who don't present a lot of challenges. But certainly we wouldn't tolerate rude or disruptive behaviour. But you can correct by removing them (younger) or telling them (older).

I think many people, you included, misunderstand gentle parenting, and are using permissive/lazy parenting as your example.

Many people are too soft, and allow their children to do anything with impunity. Many believe that physically assaulting them is justified in certain situations.

The reality is boundaries, behaviour expectations, parental leadership, MUTUAL respect, leading by example, natural consequences etc are Gentle Parenting, and they work to raise decent humans.

100% agree. If you can't out-think and out-manoeuvre a literal child and so have to resort to hitting them to get your way then you are a lazy parent.

It clearly did affect you though because it normalised it for you and now you think smacking/ hurting a child is ok.

Many adults with a severe learning disability or dementia can't be reasoned with. Do you advocate hitting them as well?

I'm bemused at this. I would not describe myself as a "gentle parent" but have not and hopefully never will smack my child.

Most parents, gentle or not, do not use violence towards their children, thank goodness - whether they have 1 child or 17.

My mother used a wooden spoon my father a leather belt. It was wrong!!

Our boys knew from the start that they would lose privileges, my eldest said recently dad was strict. But we didn't smack them. This same son is now a strict daddy himself. But there's so much love there as well.

It’s one of only three countries in Europe where it is legal. Maybe think about that for a bit. Could it be that we have it wrong?
Is it okay to hit another vulnerable group? What about those with mental disabilities? Should we be allowed to give them a whack to keep them in line? If no, then why is it okay with children?

The only time I have ever come close to smacking my kids (NB I didn't smack them) was when they had driven me around the twist and I would have been whacking them out of pure rage (NB this only happened once or twice and I removed myself from the room to simmer down). I honestly can't imagine how guilty I would feel if I'd smacked them in that state of rage - and the idea of smacking them "in cold blood" seems even more insane. Hitting a child because I'd lost control... Yeah, I don't think that would solve parenting issues (and def not saying I have cracked parenting!!)

When I say I don't believe in gentle parenting, it would be more accurate to say I haven't looked into it and it sounds like a fad like many others where parenting is concerned.

My husband is unbelievably stubborn and often chooses to do things that drive me crazy. Yet I don't choose to hit him to make myself heard.

Why is it different with children?

I wonder what kind of parenting the thug who threw a half hundred weight footstool down three stories onto pedestrians was enjoying?

I am FAR LESS likely to be tempted to use a physical punishment with a child who can talk, reason, understand a consequence.

There is absolutely no need to smack a child. Any NT child can be brought up to respect strong disapproval, expressed by tone of voice/ content of a ticking off, removal of privileges, or punished/rectified eg by apologising or writing a letter or apology, or being asked to sit silently and reflect then discuss the misbehaviour.

Gentle parenting fails because it is executed badly. When done well, it’s effective. Too few parents truly understand the method and then it just becomes an abandonment of the attempt to parent

I also think that too many schools have introduced “therapeutic” behaviour policies that focus too much on reward and not enough on consequence and punishment. Natural consequences are often hard to detect for young children and therefore can be meaningless.

Basically. Yes

What causes a person to be violent? They don't wake up one day and choose that. It's from a life time of being raised poorly... Through neglect, abuse, violence etc

Agree and as a parent further down the line you will be doing yourself a favour.

The pandering is madness. Endless snacks, everything ‘now’, climbing on their parents and elbowing them and the parent just tolerates it, kids constantly interrupting adult conversations.

So you want to teach children that smacking is wrong... By smacking them ?
Look, I don't believe in gentle parenting or whatever that is. But I don't want to physically punish my children. Getting to the point where smacking is the only option would feel like such a tremendous failure on my part, as a parent. I also don't believe children should fear adults.

But I do agree that some parents are not firm enough. Children benefit from clear boundaries, it makes them feel safe to know someone will prevent them from doing something wrong or dangerous. If your friend's reaction to being hit is "let's talk about why you're angry" rather than "you never, EVER hit anyone except in self defense", well I'm not surprised it's not working.

As in all things the answer isn't in extremes, it's in finding the right middle ground between understanding and strictness. Without anyone being hit

When a parent has to use violence to terrorise children into behaving, they have failed at parenting.

It is perfectly possible to provide firm boundaries for behaviour, eating, bedtimes, life in general, without smacking. The problem is that it requires skill and patience which some parents do not have. If you have it, you can (and definitely should) successfully parent without physical violence.

The problem is with the group who don't though - it's a question of the lesser of two evils really. I see useless parenting examples where kids are allowed to bully their parents into letting them not go to school, not go to bed, just play computer games all the time, etc. That's parental failure early on which may have been prevented with a single slap which could be less damaging than the lack of preparedness for adult life which has been allowed to develop instead. But obviously, if you lack parenting skill, the chances are you lack the ability to regulate slapping too.

When an adult gets to a point where they are smacking their child they have lost control of themselves.

gentle parenting isn't letting children do what they want and have no boundaries, it's about having very good boundaries and rules but being in control of yourself, not being reactive (shouting/smacking) but being calm and consistent with boundaries and consequences. It's not an easy parenting style because being sleep deprived and stressed makes it very hard to stay calm and controlled and not reactive, also people tend to parent how they were parented unconsciously so if you were brought up in a shouty household you will need to make an effort not to do the same.

OP, you seem to be suggesting that gentle parenting is a middle class thing?
Do you have any stats to back up your assertions that it is (mainly?) middle class gentle parented children are badly behaved?

No, it is absolutely insulting. To parents of boys, and to the boys themselves.

Why do you think the only way to control three boys is to physically discipline them? Are you so inept that you can't think of other parenting methods? It's absolutely ridiculous.

So all the violent kids out there were raised badly?