Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

I tried hard not to snack my two and never snacked DS2 at all, and DS1 only once from memory - 20 years ago.

But I agree that ‘smacking is always traumatising’ is utter nonsense. Every single family I knew as a kid in the 70s smacked their DC. The vast majority of us are not traumatised!

I would also question whether or not children are more violent now. There have always been violent children. The Bulger case is decades ago. Before that there was Mary Bell (and Mary was hideously abused by her mother, who was involved in prostitution, and gave Mary to her punters to use as they saw fit. Utterly horrendous). We are certainly dealing with these children differently, I think. It's very difficult to get them out of a mainstream school, because it's an expensive process and there often isn't anywhere for them to go.

There are more cases on the news because how news is reported has changed. And I also think, as other posters have mentioned, that too many children are being parented by their phone. A child with an interest in violence, that they may not even be consciously aware of, will be groomed by social media algorithms that show them increasingly violent content because that's what keeps the child watching, and that impacts their behaviour. We used to know this. Video nasties were banned for a reason. Now any eight year old with a phone can sit in their bedroom unsupervised and watch them, as their parent tells themselves the child is safe because they are in their room.

People that report to hitting their children are just rubbish parents. They also tend to be quite thick, so there’s no point in even trying to reason with them.

It won't be for very much longer thankfully. So people like you can stop resorting to it as the solution for every problem.

Are you suggesting that just because something is legal it is moral? I would remind you that many things considered criminal today were once legal.

Not according to virtually every teacher and early years worker.

Fairly certain that no amount of smacking/beating is going to prevent children from making mistakes.
ND child … definitely no amount of beating will smack the diagnosis out of child.

I really love your definitions, I think they work well. However, how does gentle parenting deal with a child who breaks things which belong to others, as there's no natural consequence for them?

Jesus fucking Christ, we are really still ‘smacking’ kids? Completely unacceptable.

children learn boundaries and respect but been shown boundaries and respect. Please research the difference between passive/permissive parenting and gentle parenting - here’s just one link to consider but there’s lots out there: https://slumberkins.com/blogs/slumberkins-blog/gentle-parenting-vs-permissive-parenting-whats-the-difference?srsltid=AfmBOoos_rN_TT1LoJf-FthWCTQwv1f4N1gMCduXAwqUVlpv8uhdO400

I have never even thought about smacking my children. But what I have done is maintained boundaries, shown them respect, listened and tried to understand and explain their feelings, given agency where appropriate. What I haven’t done is given them screens, let them access things that aren’t age appropriate (social media, YouTube etc). I suspect this is where the behavioural issues are arising from.

I well behaved, happy, thoughtful children and I’ve always been a ‘gentle parent’ - but often with more boundaries than their peers.

What do you do when smacking them doesn't work either, and let's take off the rose tinted specs, genx were every bit as unruly as today's kids. Move to the belt?

Unlike some posters here, I am very willing to admit that there are MANY times I’d love to hit an adult and fewer but still some times I think a child (usually mine) deserves a spanking. I don’t do it. I know it’s wrong. But my partner and I were at the end of our rope with our eldest and sat down and really really discussed it - he has a lot of traits we have on both sides and we are the “lucky” ones who are figuring out this combination without hitting.

We spent an absolute fortune and found out that our little boy is at least 2 years behind on social and emotional development, likely has PDA, ADHD and autism. That his central nervous system and core muscles are underdeveloped and dysregulating him.

He needed about 6 months of OT and now does social skill classes at the same clinic. We know the tools at home and extracurriculars to keep him level enough to learn and apply social skills and emotional regulation. I expect the same on that level from him and his little brother.

2 years later my kid who I was terrified would be put of control violent only hits about once a week and it is getting better and better all the time. Some days his little brother is the one I need to be on top of and it thrills me seeing them grow.

So no. Don’t resort to corporal punishment. Figure it out.

Mine is 11 and I have never used violence. I am NOT a permissive parent, they drive me batshit with their pandering to their child’s every whim. What I am, is a gentle parent who enforces good boundaries, and mine is constantly praised for their good manners and behaviour.

I don't know, because I'm not a sociologist. But it's certainly not because they're not being smacked.

"Numerous research studies have concluded that a complex interaction or combination of factors leads to an increased risk of violent behavior in children and adolescents. These factors include:

• Previous aggressive or violent behavior
• Being the victim of physical abuse and/or sexual abuse
• Exposure to violence in the home and/or community
• Being the victim of bullying
• Genetic (family heredity) factors
• Exposure to violence in media (TV, movies, etc.)
• Use of drugs and/or alcohol
• Presence of firearms in home
• Combination of stressful family socioeconomic factors (poverty, severe deprivation, marital breakup, single parenting, unemployment, loss of support from extended family)
• Brain damage from head injury"

Nothing about "they don't get clipped round the back of the head when they're cheeky".

In my own personal experience (as an ex-teacher), the children who were most likely to be violent in school were the ones exposed to violence in the home.

(Study source: https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Understanding-Violent-Behavior-In-Children-and-Adolescents-055.aspx)

A protector who has to hit their ward is a shit protector.

It is not hitting and punishing that makes a good parent. It is having clear boundaries about what is acceptable behaviour, it is about expecting and demonstrating polite behaviour, it is about showing how you can respect other peoples boundaries and differences while maintaining your own, it is about being the adult in the relationship, not the “friend”, it is about both having and modelling values.

One of the Bulger killers was abused, the other I think may have been sociopathic. Neither are linked to discipline.

Please ignore the typos, I do know and teach children how to use apostrophes correctly 😂. Putting it down to predictive text on my phone.

I kind of hoped that as humans we had grown out of animal behaviour

I accept this. I totally agree that healthy discipline can involve smacking and always has. There's many cultures all over the world that do just this and their children also continue to grow into happy well rounded adults.
Animals also discipline their young; dogs, wild cats etc and we can learn a lot from the benefits of quick short on the spot reminders that other species use.

How do you plan to reach a child not to hit by hitting them?
How do you teach them to regulate their emotions by not regulating your emotions?
How do you teach them to look after themselves without giving autonomy over themselves?
What you described isn't gentle parenting anyway, but if you read and learn what it actually is (it isn't permissive), it's respectful, and is common sense really. Expect your kids to act in an age appropriate way (e.g. young kids are impulsive, teenagers are risk takers), i.e. manage your expectations and be kind and respectful to them - it's really simple. I remember describing gentle parenting to a colleague who had just had a baby, and he looked at me like I was mad - as in, why wouldn't you be kind and respectful to your kid? Why wouldn't you listen to them, understand and want to help them? Arbitrary punishments, threats etc. don't really teach what you are trying to teach them and it can really damage your relationship with them, it's not worth it.

I found this recently and find it really interesting if you want to think about how the environmental you're raising your kids in impacts them...

OP I totally agree, so many parents seem to have forgotten they are their child’s protector, not their friend.

My kids are young adults now. We didn't smack them. It was a hard and fast rule. I was smacked by my father as a child. I cannot remember what for. But I can remember the fear, and pleading with him not to hit me. I can remember running away and trying to shut myself in my room to prevent it. I refused to inflict that on my own children. If it's not acceptable for an adult to hit another adult, then it is not acceptable to hit a child, where the balance of power is massively skewed in favour of the adult. I don't understand any adult that would think this is okay.

I had very clear rules for my children about what was and wasn't acceptable, so they knew where they stood, and how they were supposed to behave. No is a complete sentence, and I didn't spend forever on explanations they couldn't understand or begging them to be nice. This is the rule, you follow it because I am the parent and I say so, and there is a clear consequence if you don't.
I used time out as punishment, 1 minute for each year of age. By the time they were 9/10 it wasn't necessary any more. Both confident young people who know how to do as they're told. I wasn't trying to be their friend, I want them to be independent adults who can contribute to society.

The options aren't doing nothing or whacking them when they misbehave.

FWIW a big part of the problem with schools at the moment is that the places that were set up to deal with the children who were just too disruptive in a normal classroom, or who needed special support, have been closed because there isn't funding for them. So schools are now effectively babysitting a lot of children who should be in specialist units. It's inevitable that behaviour has gone downhill as a result.

Violence is not the answer. As PP’s have repeatedly said, it’s not gentle parenting that’s the issue, it’s the failure to uphold boundaries and excessive screen time.

I personally feel it’s partly down to the enormous pressure placed on parents these days where both work full time and boundaries aren’t enforced because parents are exhausted and trying to juggle a million things at once and just don’t have the energy for a battle over the iPad or a healthy dinner. I went back to work full time briefly for around 3 months and impacted the whole family negatively. Everyone was rushed, the house constantly looked like a bomb hit it, healthy eating went largely out the window and the iPad was used daily to be able to keep on top of the never ending housework. Patience with my children was thin after a long day and I far more easily gave in to demands.

Fair play to those parents who work full time and run a tight ship at home. No idea how you do it.

I agree with you. I’m a child from the 70s and we grew up with a strict dad and mum, we got a smacked ass if we misbehaved. Also schools were much stricter you didn’t dare talk back to the teacher or you got the cane, so that was a deterrent for most kids at that time not to misbehave. You’ve only got to look at the state of the Education system now, teachers leaving with stress and anxiety, it’s an absolute joke the way this country has gone and not for the better. 🇬🇧

Do you think that smacking is the only thing that has changed in society?

Have you any stats on whether kids who have been smacked are less violent than kids who haven't?
Smacking is legal in England and the US and violence is worsening in both countries. Why do you think this is?