Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

Parenting properly, if done properly doesn’t regard smacking or gentle parenting you teach your children the fundamentals!!
The different between right and wrong
setting strong boundaries
Being firm but fair
you make their choices until they are old enough to make them themselves !
teach them self repect and to be confident !
stop being friends your the parent !
simple things right from the beginning can make all the difference and when you do change the tone in your voice to tell them off they know they are in the wrong ! U don’t need to smack kids kids that need a smack have not been well parented ! Because they have no boundaries !

But taking stuff away isn’t gentle parenting

What gentle parenting punishments has she tried

I'm afraid I can't tell you that either!

I'm merely describing what has worked for me and pointing out that it never has and never will involve smacking.

Yes, I understand that, and that's exactly what I took issue with.

It's not either/or. It's not just laziness. Often gentle/permissive parents (pick your word) will be working incredibly hard at parenting but it's not effective.

Both contribute to current standards of behaviour.

If that’s the true definition of gentle parenting then that is what I did (without knowing it had a name). I would recommend it in its truest form (so not permissive or lazy parenting) as in my experience it’s a great way to parent.

Whereas I'm talking about all lazy parents irrespective of their methods.

Gentle parenting isn't never telling your kids no.... that's permissive.

Gentle parenting is firm boundaries and clear expectations - whilst acknowledging hey have thoughts and feelings and not using fear based methods (eg hitting) to get them to comply

My friend has 4 children, and they are well behaved.{Teens to early twenties}. The parents are both teachers, and the Dad is especially no nonsense!
None of the children would have been smacked.

That’s interesting. I did my parenting instinctively, always following my gut. I would sometimes read some parenting advice and realise it wasn’t me and so just trusted myself. It turned out to be a very good choice and I’m proud of how i have brought up two fine adults.(No smacking)

I am very strict and have never smacked any of my 4 children, they are now in their 20s and teenagers and are all doing very well and are rounded people who know right from wrong.

Early attachment is crucial for a child's wellbeing.

It seems to form a solid ground that everything else is built on.

Children are massively able to detect weakness in an adult.

Children who have been adopted early are so often ''poorly attached'' and traumatised by loss, but even then they can do well with appropriate {adoptive} parental input.

Knowing what works for one's own child is so important.

DS needed masses of outdoor exercise to keep him happy - literally miles of it, cycling, riding, walking- if he didn't get these, because of appalling weather, he'd be bouncing off the walls.

Sitting in front of a ''game'' didn't wear him out. {He's grown now}

I don’t agree with smacking and never have. However I do think this gentle parenting is a recipe for disaster and will create a generation of narcissist's who can’t function in their work life or being told no.
I think it also depends on the child. Some boys children are naturally quite boisterous and at times needs a firm no.

This sounds really hard for you - do your parents ever acknowledge what happened in the past?

You are right that parenting often swings 180 degrees and in parent’s later years they may be reliant on their children. You are doing far more than they deserve so make sure you prioritise your own needs.

I’m in a similar position with my parents except they were always loving and gentle. Despite this, some days I do feel frustrated and have to remind myself of how they cared for me when I was the helpless and demanding one and what I owe them as a consequence. My hat goes off to you sincerely as I don’t think I could do it in your position. You are giving back so much more than they have earned.

Not sure how I got it so right with first baby and so dreadfully wrong with the second one.

That's because a vast majority of people don't actually use Gentle Parenting - they use permissive parenting, which doesn't work.

Natural consequences are 100% effective when used consistently and correctly - this has been studied and verified time and time again.

You do not need to physically assault a child and if you do then you're doing something wrong...and I have 14yo as well as two 3yo so I don't need to wait until they're 5-8, I've never wanted to hit my children and I've never needed to.

I agree about the personality of the child. I was a very smug young mum with a beautifully behaved baby/toddler/preschooler. Then I had his sibling and came crashing down to earth.

Why would her mind change? Mine are 18 and 21. I never felt the need or desire to smack them. Ever.

I just have an expectation of good behaviour, of respect, thoughtfulness, and kindness towards others, and of honesty and truthfulness. That's how I live my life and, generally speaking, it's worked as far as managing behaviour goes.

It works on my Brownies too. They live up to the expectations I place on them.

Spot on.

It’s completely nonsensical - you're not allowed to hit any adult but you can hit your child. Your child can’t hit you or another child though. All hitting is wrong except if you want (because it is a want) to hit your own child, that’s ok. You can’t hit someone else’s child though, that’s wrong.

Someone make it make sense!

There’s a large area of middle ground between gentle parenting and smacking children. If you need to hit children to get them to behave, you’re a pretty crap disciplinarian. If you let children do what they want because you’re too weak to enforce discipline, you’re also a pretty crap disciplinarian. I think we’re all sick of seeing spoiled kids doing whatever they want and taking that behaviour into classrooms or growing up to be dickheads. But I also don’t want to see kids afraid of their own parents hitting them.

Since gentle and permissive are so easily confused , and gentle seems to be incredibly difficult to do perhaps we need parenting tools for normal parents

I'm talking about two distinct groups of parents.

The "screens as lifelong pacifiers" crowd and the "never say no to a child" crowd are neglectful in different ways.

I think there’s a danger in subscribing to a parenting style that is not authentic to the parent themselves. Child development research shows clearly the critical role of secure attachment and responsive parenting in raising well adjusted adults.

The issue I find with gentle parenting is that it comes across as inauthentic often, like its patter, and can end up being permissive to the detriment of the child’s behaviour unless it’s done by the book, which automatically makes it disingenuous.

Children are excellent bullshit detectors, they see inauthenticity in adults and do not respond well IME. Discussing feelings and giving children the space and vocabulary to articulate their feelings and drivers is certainly valuable but there’s also times when it’s appropriate to respond sternly when important boundaries are crossed.

like Brian said, ‘we’ve all got to work it out for ourselves’, (having done the reading and found a parenting style that’s makes sense as an individual and has a good basis in evidence).

I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

That's not gentle parenting. That's permissive parenting.

Last week I was with dog in local park, and a mother was completely overwhelmed by her young child.

The young child was just being a normal young kid, giggling and dashing off, but the mother wasn't physically fit enough to dash after the child and ''catch'' her to go home.

Mum was pleading at first, then changed to threats ''Mummy is going to leave you here alone with DOGS.

Mummy won't be able to protect you, you will be all alone WITH DOGS.

The mother ambled slowly to the gate.

There is often a pleading tone with children, rather than a commanding tone-

A friend has a lot of dogs that she commands with a voice alone- and when she gives an instruction, even my dog lines up and listens!

A firm, no nonsense voice {not shouting} can go a long way.

If you were smacked every day then it wasn't an effective punishment.