Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

Exactly. And if we look at GCSE attainment by race it's topped by the Chinese and Indians. At least 20 percentage points higher than white British. I wouldn't say it's definitely contributed due to smacking but it's due to a stricter and "non gentle" style of parenting.

I remember seeing a thread about drugs use at university sometime last year where someone said that their son told them they were the white person in their group that didn't do drugs. A quick look on our government website does show that an Asian person is less likely to do drugs than a white person.

I also remember a thread about how people were "so surprised" at how well behaved children were in South Korea. I'm not saying it's due to smacking, but it is due to strict parenting.

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri it sounds as if your grandfather was more appropriate in how and why he applied his sanctions, and that his intention was to guide you in a better direction.

But the fact remains that he could have accomplished this without hitting you. Culturally and in that time it was probably the norm, but in this day and age we know a great deal more about the impact of hitting children on their future prospects. And so we shouldn't do it.

Forget the term gentle parenting. Parents who set no boundaries raise children that are out of control. Parents who don't want to put in the effort engaging with their child and rely on screens to do the parenting also have children that struggle with behaviour. Parents who raise children through fear by either hitting them or shouting at them when they do not meet their standards raise children who often grow upto be anxious adults and sometimes struggle with forming normal relationships.

Parenting involves setting boundaries, accepting it is normal for your child not to agree with every decision you make but making it for their benefit. It involves engaging with your child from the start. Sometimes you do lose your cool as children can be difficult and challenge you - when this happens, you apologise and reflect on how you can improve next time.

I am far from perfect, have definitely lost my cool with my children on occasion but cannot possibly imagine hitting them when this happens - and the oldest is over 8 OP.

I genuinely believe that smacking, is not hitting your children. I completely agree that in many cases it's born of a lost temper or borne of a desire to subjugate children. But, that's not always the case. I have talked with my PIL and heard there views on parenting within their culture a d society and can see that far from an anger response or a desire to subjugate their children, it is there to punish I know we don't like that word here, behaviour that has been for warned and explained and children who then decide to cross that boundary know what will happen when they do.

You may not agree with it, and that is fine. But I have come to respect that viewpoint. Whether or not I or my husband smack our children is not the point I am making. Yes my husband did once smack my son on the back of the hand when he kept taking other people food. This behaviour had been clearly explained as wrong on several occasions. You may think my husband is an awful man, again your welcome. I won't waste my breath defending him, as it won't change your opinion.

I was merely suggesting that our culture may shape what we think about these thing. There are many things that other cultures do not like about UK culture. Often what we do however is write off

If my husband hit my child because he took some food off someone's else's plate, i would be absolutely furious with my husband. Tell them again, prevent the child from touching the food by blocking with your hand, remove the child or move the food. Four options right there that don't involve hitting. It's pretty simple - Don't lose control of yourself and hit a child. Can't believe this needs to be said in 2025. I mean, my husband wouldn't hit a child because he's a good, kind man, although he's not a doctor.

Clearly being smacked as a child himself did your husband harm because he's grown up to think it's ok to hit children.

Would he hit a patient if they weren't co-operating? Why not?

And yes i will call it hitting because that's what it is. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable that your husband saw fit to hit your child and you did nothing.

Cambridge dictionary definition:

smack
verb
uk /smæk/ us /smæk/

[ T ]
to hit someone or something forcefully with the flat inside part of your hand, producing a short, loud noise, especially as a way of punishing a child.

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri the thing is, we can't really have one without the other. We have to look at what behaviours are desirable and what behaviours need correcting. We also need to look at whole cohorts , not just the ones who made it (and I'm not talking about just financially successful here).

The people doing the smacking, will always find justification. On top of that, if the kid turns out well? See, we knew we were right, it didn't do you any harm etc. If they don't turn up well? See, he/she was always trouble/incorrigible/we had no choice. There also tends to be a huge lack of introspection into their own behaviour and how it may have caused any issues, because they "had the best intentions".

One of mother's biggest lamentations/jokes (even now) is that she didn't smack me more as a child. She genuinely believes that. Am I doctor? No(much to her disappointment).I am however, a perfectly functioning (most times) adult, with a job (even if not a great one), a family and a home.

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri the thing is, we can't really have one without the other. We have to look at what behaviours are desirable and what behaviours need correcting. We also need to look at whole cohorts , not just the ones who made it (and I'm not talking about just financially successful here).

The people doing the smacking, will always find justification. On top of that, if the kid turns out well? See, we knew we were right, it didn't do you any harm etc. If they don't turn up well? See, he/she was always trouble/incorrigible/we had no choice. There also tends to be a huge lack of introspection into their own behaviour and how it may have caused any issues, because they "had the best intentions".

One of mother's biggest lamentations/jokes (even now) is that she didn't smack me more as a child. She genuinely believes that. Am I doctor? No(much to her disappointment).I am however, a perfectly functioning (most times) adult, with a job (even if not a great one), a family and a home.

Are you still in touch with your mother? How would you say your DGF's smacking caused your success?

I know you won't like this response.

But my grandfather smacked me on occasion, he was in fact the reason for my success.

My mother knocked the hell of me for anything and everything, I at no point made any comments suggesting anyone should be smacked more, suggested that societies ills are because we don't smack enough, again simply sharing my experience and thoughts.

But, I'm beginning to see that, the response to that here is to suggest I have said all kinds of things I haven't said

The issue with that is what behaviour is seen as undesirable and worthy of punishment, especially for girls. Have you had a look at the treatment of women and girls in China, what's generally expected of them , that there are fields of work they are completely excluded from, that there's trafficking and child marriage and many, many other issues?

You looking at your husband as a success story is a very narrow sample. What about all the other people who didn't make it? Was it because they weren't smacked? Not smacked enough? Or is it because overall it doesn't actually fucking work, it can and does cause damage and no one cares about the collateral damage, just the doctor success stories?

So if someone chose to parent by beating / neglect / sexual abuse /all of the above ....that's ok, because you should parent the way you want??

The issue with that is what behaviour is seen as undesirable and worthy of punishment, especially for girls. Have you had a look at the treatment of women and girls in China, what's generally expected of them , that there are fields of work they are completely excluded from, that there's trafficking and child marriage and many, many other issues?

You looking at your husband as a success story is a very narrow sample. What about all the other people who didn't make it? Was it because they weren't smacked? Not smacked enough? Or is it because overall it doesn't actually fucking work, it can and does cause damage and no one cares about the collateral damage, just the doctor success stories?

I have no issue with how people choose to parent their children, do what works for the child that you have. Parent in the way that you want, I'm not suggesting anyone should change their views on this issue, I've seen gentle parenting as described by it's many advocates here work wonderfully, I've also seen it as it is described here not working effectively. I have friends who have smacked their older children, discovered that it didn't work with subsequent children and then adapted accordingly. Every family, every child, every culture is different.

I simply wanted to share another cultural viewpoint.to show that smacking is not simply the result of angry parenting lazy parenting, (insert your adjective of choice) parenting, as is so often said here.

I have no issue with how people choose to parent their children, do what works for the child that you have. Parent in the way that you want, I'm not suggesting anyone should change their views on this issue, I've seen gentle parenting as described by it's many advocates here work wonderfully, I've also seen it as it is described here not working effectively. I have friends who have smacked their older children, discovered that it didn't work with subsequent children and then adapted accordingly. Every family, every child, every culture is different.

I simply wanted to share another cultural viewpoint.to show that smacking is not simply the result of angry parenting lazy parenting, (insert your adjective of choice) parenting, as is so often said here.

I genuinely believe that smacking, is not hitting your children. I completely agree that in many cases it's born of a lost temper or borne of a desire to subjugate children. But, that's not always the case. I have talked with my PIL and heard there views on parenting within their culture a d society and can see that far from an anger response or a desire to subjugate their children, it is there to punish I know we don't like that word here, behaviour that has been for warned and explained and children who then decide to cross that boundary know what will happen when they do.

You may not agree with it, and that is fine. But I have come to respect that viewpoint. Whether or not I or my husband smack our children is not the point I am making. Yes my husband did once smack my son on the back of the hand when he kept taking other people food. This behaviour had been clearly explained as wrong on several occasions. You may think my husband is an awful man, again your welcome. I won't waste my breath defending him, as it won't change your opinion.

I was merely suggesting that our culture may shape what we think about these thing. There are many things that other cultures do not like about UK culture. Often what we do however is write off

Gen X here too.
I remember the hand prints on my legs/ arms. Although I remember it, it didn't traumatise me.
What she said to me as a joke did more damage than the slaps . I wasn't beaten by any means but I had a few slaps, her angry face was enough lol and the "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about". Ugh gives me shudders just thinking about it.

My story is different to yours.

I wasn't blessed with the pretty stick as a child and the epitome of a pretty child to me was blue eyes, blonde hair probably curly. Idk where I got that from. Little House on the Prairie perhaps anyway, I had a wonky eye and brown wonky hair. One day I asked my mum if she thought I was pretty and she flippantly said, as a joke, "pretty ugly".
I didn't know she was joking. I was 7 and devastated and I have lived with that insecurity since then until only recently really. I definitely feel better about myself since I entered my 40s.

I discovered last year that I've lived with ADHD without knowing and it explains so much and I've had to confront a lot of things my mum said and did in the first 10 years of my life that massively impacted my life and mind. Force feeding me to make sure I ate/had something iny tummy despite the anguish it brought me because of food sensitivity. Nope, I was a fussy eater.
Oh and a hypochondriac known as health anxiety today. My DS has this too.
I don't blame her for any of it, knowing all this, it's helped me to understand why I am the way I am/have been and I actually finally feel seen.

So I wasn't traumatised by the slaps.
I've smacked both of my children in the past but it didn't do anything apart from make me feel like a hideous monster not really anything else. I haven't spanked them for a long time and I can't say 100% that I never will again. I can't. But I will do everything in my power not to because I dont want my kids to grow up traumatised by me. I try so hard with what I say to them also.

Sorry that went a bit longer than I expected.

I wouldn't aspire to copying South Korea. It's still a deeply sexist culture where girls and women don't get equal treatment, it's the place where young people spend so much time at school and in crammers in order to succeed that they barely have a life, and right now its fabric is crumbling because especially women have had enough.

And actually, proper authoritative parenting absolutely can be strict. It just isn't violent.

Exactly. And if we look at GCSE attainment by race it's topped by the Chinese and Indians. At least 20 percentage points higher than white British. I wouldn't say it's definitely contributed due to smacking but it's due to a stricter and "non gentle" style of parenting.

I remember seeing a thread about drugs use at university sometime last year where someone said that their son told them they were the white person in their group that didn't do drugs. A quick look on our government website does show that an Asian person is less likely to do drugs than a white person.

I also remember a thread about how people were "so surprised" at how well behaved children were in South Korea. I'm not saying it's due to smacking, but it is due to strict parenting.

My husband is Chinese, smacking, not hitting, hitting is something very different. It's still very much common place, as it is in India and in many countries in the world.

My husband will attest that he was occasionally smacked, (not hit in anger) smacked for behaviour that he had been warned jn advance would result in that punishment.

Leaving the home without permission, taking money from his parents wallets to buy Pokémon cards etc..

This is a common parenting strategy in his home country, it is viewed by most Chinese people (accordingly to my husband and his friends) as an acceptable form of parenting in some situations.

He is now a successful doctor and not under the impression that his parents are abusers nor does he have a complete lack of social responsibility/respect for other people.

I think the reason I struggle with these threads is there is rarely engagement with another point of view. We can have strong opinions many do.