How to bring up boys

I was 100% of the nurture, not nature, value system. Until the first boy in our family turned up. He had all the girls toys, was encouraged to be artistic, be creative, enjoy reading, be kind, caring, nurturing. He has never had a gun or a toy that was able to be manipulated to be a weapon. He's had conversations about consent for years already, focusing on our animals (don't touch them if they don't want to be touched etc) and also in relation to other children (kind hands, don't touch). He is encouraged to cook, automatically tidies his toys up and is commended for helping to clear the classroom up. No issues there.

He has firm discipline and there is zero tolerance of violence. At the age of 3 he saw a flash of a video of female wrestlers (channel being changed on the TV) and banged on about 'fighting ladies' for weeks afterwards.

He's a lovely, lovely boy. Kind. Loves younger children. Gentle with them. But still exhibits very many of the stereotypical boy traits. For some males this stuff is hard wired in. Does it excuse male violence, rape culture, sh*tty men? Of course not.

I have a toddler who tidies up after himself, feeds us and shares even his favourite snacks, likes to make people laugh, gives kisses, cuddles.

He's got an occasional delirious tendency to poke and prod and wrestle with us, but nothing I'd describe as violence.

It helps that he gets big praise for all his tidying, but I think it's fairly innate to him to copy and stay organised. He even helps clear up at nursery, putting the chairs away, and making sure doors are shut all the time.

Yes, picking a good role model as father is a good start. What else?

I actually think that this is one of the most important things. Role models are very important. Children learn how to behave.

I also think encouraging a wide range of interests and not pushing 'gendered' hobbies is important. My DS loves football but also music and theatre. He's regularly in situations where he is the only boy or one of only a few. That's a good thing in my view.

Near enough every parent on here has said there boy is lovely, calm and gentle, or alluded to the fact that they've got no concerns about them growing up and becoming one of the men we talk about when we say not all men are like that but some are, but that can't be true for everyone otherwise we wouldn't have a problem with VAWG, sexism, toxic masculinity, etc.

I don't know the percentage, but there's obviously a much more significant percentage of man who grew up to be 'abusive, violent, bullied, etc' compared to females, so I do think it's a really sensible and admirable thing for parents of boys to consider how to proactively steer them away from turning into those adults as they grow up.

Teach him to cook clean do meditation (sleeping dragon) and good night sleepy paws. Learn him to use the washing machine. Buy him dolls and a pram and don't allow him violent games.

There is a disconnect here where every mum says her boy is lovely and on other threads the men are rotters. So the op is right to ask and think!

I have seen so many friends treat their boys differently to their daughters ~ more accepting of ‘cheeky’ behaviour or loudness. It’s pretty obvious in families with one of each. Dif toys, dif clothes, dif activities. All teaching these kids that they are different.

I have two boys 13&11 and I've never allowed violence - they don't, and never have hit or engaged in rough housing. They would "play fight" or pretend wrestle when they were little but it was always supervised and stopped if someone got hurt and I've never ascribed to "boys will be boys" which is a damaging and dismissive trope.

My eldest was always more physically active but my second was content to watch the world - I never thought "physically active = boisterous" - I was way more boisterous than both of them as a child!

They are both very close to me, and talk to me about things that concern them, and I talk to them about challenges from different perspectives.

We both work FT but my husband is present, active in their lives and interests and we both show a lot of physical affection, hugs and care.

I've also maintained that we should be their ultimate influence until they leave for uni overseas - kids being negatively influenced by their peers is the biggest challenge, but we live in a country where it's easier to maintain our connection (non-UK, no places to congregate/hangout, can't get bus into town etc)

You asked an interesting question OP but not sure why you've had a bit of a pile on for suggesting that boys and girls are different and that 3 year old boys are at more risk of growing up to commit violence than 3 year old girls are.

I am interested in this because both DH and I grew up in female only households, the men in my family for the most part were damaged, detached and sometimes abusive and violent and I am raising sons (now tweens/teens).

There's not a lot you can do about the big factors (Yes marry a good man and ensure your child has minimal trauma and distress but things don't always turn out that way) but by the time they are ten their peer group will be the biggest influence on their behaviour - to a much greater magnitude than you are. The most brilliant mums sometimes have the most awful adult sons.

3 things you can do:

• as much physical activity as possible - sport, exercise, outside play - it will help them learn to regulate their emotions, deal with disappointment, build resilience and work with a team. (I always think it's a great paradox that children who spend all Sunday in the freezing cold being kicked, pushed, yelled at by coaches and verbally abused by teammates will on the whole have much higher self-esteem and better mental health than those who are kept at home wrapped in cotton wool)

• encourage them in whatever THEY are interested in whether you approve of it or not. If your boy likes Barbie or Warhammer - let him play out his interest. My eldest was absolutely obsessed by the military for two years and then moved onto fashion and fragrance. Let them explore their passions at their own pace - even if you think they are too aggressive / too girly / too weird.

• If they have a problem they show it through behaviour. You need to find out what the problem is and sort it. Don't just deal with the superficial behaviour - find out the cause. Primary school and younger boys don't come home and calmly explain they are feeling a bit off because they are being bullied or they are tired and hungry or a grown up frightens them or their friends aren't talking to them. They come home and have a tantrum, kick out or misbehave. Speak up for them and solve the problem.

Also bear in mind some children do not respond in ways the book or MN says. I have absolutely destroyed myself trying to put in place tried and tested tactics for DS1 only to find out they do not work on him and if anything make matters worse. You need to work with the kid you've got.

And once again, boys are different from girls in small but very important ways. Testosterone and puberty hit differently so avoid false equivalence.

Have you heard yourself? Would you not find it offensive if someone said there were lots of parents who thought they had raised a nice girl but in fact they were manipulative bitches, for example?

I think half your problem is nursery workers accepting this as typical boys behaviour. Changing nursery won't fix it though as the attitude is endemic. You need a no acceptance attitude to 'bad' behaviours for boys in exactly the same way we have for girls. But this needs to come from nursery, school, home, friends, family, media, news, etc. And we cannot control all of that.

I'm patent to an autistic child who can have violent meltdowns. I have an autistic dd too. She doesn't even need to have a meltdown to be corrected- more is just expected of her. And I'm in support of high expectations within the scope of a child's ability. My criticism isn't people are too harsh with dd it's that poor behaviour from ds is acceptable and reinforced by everyone. If I raise it with settings I get told I'm too harsh he's autistic, boys generally are this way etc etc. I don't care frankly! I expect him to have the support he needs to manage his behaviour appropriately and I do accept and understand his additional needs as a reason for his higher levels of challenging behaviour but I will not accept it as an excuse. If he's hurt someone else REGARDLESS of the reason I expect him to have a consequence not be told it's not his fault!! I will bend over backwards and move mountains for him when he's told me he's struggling, if he's told me he's struggling and tried to not kick off o don't give a consequence but if he's just kicked off without effort or considering others then he gets a consequence (and I focus effort on what led to it not happening again but it's not used as an excuse).

But I'm fighting a loosing battle. Grandparents day father etc etc literally everyone will correct dd for stuff ds is just allowed to do. Dd is expected to give priority to ds. They are both autistic but he's a boy so always less is expected of him.

I'm firm at home but all this means is as he gets older and sees I'm firm compared to others is he thinks I'm the bad guy and mean and it undermines my efforts.

I've now pulled dd out of school due to the horrendous behaviour from the boys in her class. She couldn't play in the playground as their games took priority. When she tried she got injured and the school response was she keep away from the boys not boys need to take more care of others! She got bullied and picked on but she would get in trouble for her autistic questions that others have taken as insulting.

I've pulled her from school for multiple other reasons but this was a big one. And that hasn't stopped the patriarch influence it seeps in from everything it feels like

We don't parent I'm a vacuum. Obviously we have to do our best but alone we are not enough. Society and institutions need to change

Most young children are lovely. They all have their quirks and issues, they all go wrong sometimes and need to be helped and corrected, and sometimes they act out because of inadequate boundaries or poor parenting. But even when they need guidance, most are lovely. Including boys. I particularly love 8 year olds - boys and girls. Old enough to be interesting and knowledgeable about things they are into, young enough to have boundless energy and enthusiasm.

Most young children also believe in fairness and gender equality. They think girls can do anything they want and they think boys can do anything they want. They think chores should be shared out fairly and everyone should help.

Young children, and their mothers, aren't the problem, in most cases. The problem is what happens to boys following puberty and continues into adult life, when they're trying to work out their own place in the world and how this relates to everyone else.

The problem is this - adult men, as a group, set boys a horrendous example of misogyny, casual sexism, violence, laziness and male privilege. This example permeates every home, whether there is a father present or not, where one parent does more than their fair share and carries the household and the other 'opts out' to a greater or lesser degree. Some children will be more susceptible to this example than others.

Mothers are not really the problem here. So sadly they're probably not the largest part of the solution either.

Sounds like you have personal issues with men. And dont compare your children its unhealthy.

If you must compare, compare him to other second children instead. Your first child didn't have an older sibling with cool toys she wasn't allowed to try to eat getting half the attention. Kids react when the world doesn't revolve around just them, he'll get over it.

I noticed a huge difference from birth between DS and DD.

Both are great, DS is much more selfish than DD, it may be that he is younger.

In school, the boys are definitely rough and jeer each other with personal insults aged 9.

I have so far raised DS to be a kind, friendly, loving boy, he would never bully anyone, but he is tough too, which sadly is playing into macho territory, he will defend himself and those weaker, so far verbally.

I'm glad in a way that he is tough, it's a jungle out there, the balance is very fine though in ensuring that he knows to make good choices, respect others.

"When he is upset he will hit, bite, pull hair, scratch or throw things at you. Mostly at me or his sister" and the consequences should be swift for that. Ignore him and give lots of love and sympathy to your DD to show him it is not to be tolerated.

I think the only thing to add is I never shouted at my children unless they were in danger. Talking to them about what they did wrong was never done by shouting, I grew up in a shouty household and hated it, everyone communicated by shouting if you were upset or annoyed or frustrated.

Acknowledge the feeling, I can see you are frustrated or cross (tended not to use the word angry) but we do not throw/hit/bite. As a 5'4" woman with a 6'3" Dh and having two boys I knew they would be taller and stronger than me by 12 so a look would have to stop them dead. Both of them are just under 6 foot and are now adults. Dh modelled excellent behaviour; kindness, fun, caring, thoughtful behaviour. It started young, taking them shopping to buy birthday gifts for people to make thinking of others a core aspect of their personality.

Dh is built to play rugby, he is a giant of a man but a marshmallow, gentle, sweet and still leaves me love notes in the fridge after more than 25 years of marriage. The children see this. As your child gets older point out characters in books or tv shows that are not nice or are lovely and help them see what constitutes that. They don't have to see it in real life. It is everywhere. I am looking at you Bingo on Bluey and yes I watch it because it is epic.

Why do you think you can teach your son about being a respectful man?

It's like a man saying they are going to teach their daughter to be a respectful and peaceful and not abusive.

Boys learn how to be respectful and non-abusive from watching how their father treats their Mother. They learn from other men. That's why male role models are so important. It's no surprise that the majority of male teenagers who are involved in criminality come from single mother households.

If you want your son to grow up to be respectful and not violent, make sure he is surrounded by men who are like that.

My son absolutely has those traits associated with being a boy. I don't know why others on here are flaming you @TheLast5Percent for pointing it out. Yes, there are loads of non-stereotypical boys in his class at school. But he and his little buddies are the loud, boisterous, fighting stereotype. No, I'm not a fan of it and yes, we massively try to socialise him to be caring, empathetic and kind. Which is working. But still, those loud physical traits are in there.

If I'm 100% honest, I'd prefer a bookish boy. BUT I love the one I have. It's definitely nature with him, rather than nurture. But it is what it is. I wouldn't swap him for the world. Loud as he is 😆

I really had a zero tolerance approach to violence. Tantrums are not violence per se- they are a child trying to communicate. But when it escalated into violence, that was my red line. No rough play at all. No pretend play with guns/weapons. I also give them the chance to engage in other play. When they were little we had a lot of Happyland toys and small world toys and I would play with them even though I found it deathly dull. Small girls are also socialised into obedience and stillness and doing crafts. I socialised my kids into seeing quiet time, reading time, craft time, board game time as valuable family time while giving them plenty of time outdoors as well.

My husband who is a kind person models the behaviour I would like to see them adopt as well. He is an equal partner and husband who doesn't need a manual for how to look after them when I am away. And doesn't see his career as being more important than mine etc. As a dual academic family, he's allowed me to rise through the career ranks by frequently taking a step back himself.

Yes, there is toxic masculinity in the outside world, but if you equip them with the correct moral and critical tools at home (and your household is not unequal) then as he grows up he will have the critical skills to not engage with/push back against misogyny when he sees it.

Keep in mind that boys and men get a hard time on MN because it is mostly women here and of course, people aren't going to post (very often) about how amazing the men in their life are. So you do get a skewed perspective.

I have 2 lovely (now 19 and 21 year old sons). They are great. Everyone has always told me how polite they are. They work hard. They are respectful (both have lovely girlfriends). I am separated from their dad but it is amiable and he is a super and always been very dedicated father.

I think team sport is really important for both girls and boys. Mine played in the local football team from a young age, one now plays a lot of basketball, they both climb with their dad and my eldest now lives somewhere he can surf every day. They both also did Scouts.

All my sons male friend are lovely guys. In my experience of having always been very welcoming to my sons friends and them being in my house, it was more often the girls I had more problems with. One was so disrespectful to me in front of my son and a group of friends that my son immediately told her not to speak to me that way (I was so proud of him for that). Friends with girls tell me about online bullying and cliques; I never experienced either with my sons (thank goodness).

Just enjoy them! Boys are brilliant.

This

No I don’t think all men have an inherent tendency to selfishness and violence but I do think how they are parented by their fathers impacts them a lot.

My husband is a soft, gentle person and my boys have turned out the same. They are 16 and nearly 19 now.

Having a good example of a man is really the most important part. If his dad isn't a good man and you don't have good men in your family then find a sport with good male role models. Personally I find BJJ type things good. Teaches them self control, respect, the men I know in martial arts, especially that teach kids classes are truly lovely blokes.

I think one of the biggest issues for men is managing their emotions. So you model how to manage your emotions. How to express them. Particularly anger. Healthily. You hold firm boundaries for how they treat you. Just becuase you're upset or angry doesn't mean you can shout at me. We don't shout at the people we love.

Don't stay in an unhealthy relatiohsip. If he sees you allowing a man to treat you poorly he's going to grow up to think that's how you treat women.

Teach him to clean up his messes. He spills something you give him a cloth to wipe it up. He puts his dirty clothes in the laundry basket. Get him involved in helping as possible. Washing the pots is so much bloody harder with a toddler "helping" but it teaches him that it's a normal part of his life.

I think this is a great question. I've spent a long time thinking about It, but framed differently. The question that interests me is "how do I raise my boy, given that we live in a society that socialises men towards violence and aggression?".

My DS was born perfect. All babies are. His nature is sweet and caring, even now he's at primary school. He was a delightful toddler, very sweet, gentle and loving. But I know that at least some of the influences that he is going to encounter as he grows will give him the message that violence is cool, that boys are better than girls, that fighting is sometimes the answer, that it's ok to overpower othes with your strength.

As a result, I put more emphasis into counteracting those worries than I would with a girl. For example, we've always been extremely serious about consent. If I ask him to move his hand from my face he needs to do it instantly. If someone doesn't want to be hugged, it's an instant no. We talk a lot about looking after animals and being kind to animals, even insects, and talk about how when you're strong you need to use your strength to protect and help, never to hurt.

With a girl, I'd still talk about all of these things, but I'd focus more on the types of values and language that would help her fight against the messaging that girls get, e.g. that they're second class citizens, that they exist for the pleasure of men, that their looks matter a great deal, and so on.

It's not about thinking that boys are worse or more violent than girls. They're not, little boys are perfect, just as little girls are perfect. It's about knowing that our perfect children grow up in an imperfect and injust society, and having to fight tooth and nail to make sure they don't lose themselves in it as they grow.

I'm glad you've stuck with this thread OP and agree that you've said some triggering things that have sent this on a tangent. I think you're asking for advice on raising boys in a world with strong negative gender stereotypes.
As you have a DD you have the opportunity to show consistency. Once you start looking for it you'll notice things everywhere like people calling your DD 'love' and 'darling' but calling DS words like 'mate' and 'champ'. Even kids clothing will say things like 'I'm a winner' on a boys top but 'I'm a princess' on a girls. You have the opportunity to equalise this.
Also my DS13 told me recently that my DH is the only dad out of all his friends who cooks. All the friends he mentioned have working mums so why this is the case I have no idea. If your DH doesn't pull his weight, start this now!