Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

The point is. If a person can’t be handled by one carer then alternatives need to be sought to protect others and potentially themselves

Indeed!

Incarcerated children face a high risk of sexual abuse and rape.

Incarcerating children also puts them at risk.

Driving whilst on the phone?

Well, if we’re incarcerating people who could potentially do harm I think people who break the speed limit, or who drink too much or do drugs come top of that list 🤔

The third option is most definitely not the most palatable when it comes to putting children at risk.

It is a society discussion - do we want to pay to ensure that these people can live near normal lives with more carers, or do we want to incarcerate potentially violent people at all times? Or is the third option - putting other people at risk - the most palatable?

Where does the second carer come from?

I’m not saying any of this is okay btw…but where does that other carer come from?
Because that level of help isn’t there ime.

Shall we just reiterate that no one has said anyone should condone violence. No one has said it’s a good thing. No one has said disabled people adult or child should be allowed to hit anyone. Nobody has said we should just let people pull our hair, or assault us or our children. Some people have tried to explain capacity and possible avenues to explore, or what they would do in given situations. People have tried to focus on how violence should be treated rather than how a specific group of disabled people should be treated.

The situation for those who are a danger to the public must change though.
If that means two people are required in order to be out and about then so be it. If a person has a tendency towards assault or aggression towards others then they shouldn’t go out unless the carers can prevent that from happening.
That doesn’t mean people have to be stuck inside, there’s lots of places to drive or go to with very few people. Its simply not acceptable to take people to places when as a career you know they might harm someone.

Lets not forget the lady knocked off her bike into moving traffic and killed. Had the attacker been properly supervised when out situations like that are far less likely to happen. It’s all very good excusing people because they don’t know what they are doing but that doesn’t help the victim…..

The alternative of course is more specialist schools and homes.

I’m ND. No doubt we have to move through a world that doesn’t offer us a great deal of support or sympathy. My needs for flexible working, personal space and to avoid overstimulation are frequently dismissed as preciousness. I am relatively independent; I shudder to think how much harder it must be for those who are not.

But if someone spills a (potentially hot?) cup of tea/coffee over me, or hits me, and laughs, there is a very real chance I would report that to the police. The fact that I am more independent and able to care for myself than others does not mean I’m required to tolerate that. Yes, I have a right to not be the victim of violence, and yes that right is every bit as important as the right of those of us with hidden disabilities of every kind to move through the world too.

What has become very insidious is the way in which a woman can start a MN thread about being made uncomfortable, being hurt or threatened by a man and someone will inevitably come along and pipe up that ‘oh, maybe he’s ND’, thus directing the focus of the conversation away from the woman’s real and immediate upset and towards the potential feelings of a potentially ND man. As a ND person myself I find it patronising and offensive on a number of levels.

We are all sharing this big rock with each other, and my own experience is that selfishness across the board is making that very hard to do.

Can you expand on that?

@Resttime Do you honestly not see how you are contributing to stigmatising ND children?

I'm not saying DC shouldn't use self defence when necessary. But escaping a situation should be what we encouage and revenge isn't acceptable.

I gave an example of something that happens regularly in schools. NT child spends lots of time taunting a disabled child who doesn't know how to handle the situation and becomes unregulated. NT child goes home and tells Mum the ND children is horrible and violent. Mum encourages thier child to return violence because 'little timmy would never be mean to a disabled child, the disabled child needs to be taught a lesson'.

@Resttime You literally just made up a hypothetical example in which I, a neurodiverse child (who also happened to be severely physically disabled, though I grant you I didn't mention it in the comment you were replying to) decided to punch someone bullying me. Something I literally never, ever would have done in a million years. Just because you wanted to prove a point about how victimised little girls should never be allowed to defend themselves...

By ‘treatment’ they mean medication. Medications are a double-edged sword - they increase concentration and impulse control, and reduce hyperactivity. But they also leave some people feeling sluggish and not themselves. Some people can also lose too much weight or have other side effects. This means many people decide not to take them. Then you must also consider the ability of those with chaotic lifestyles to manage medication. On top of this there is a huge shortages of ADHD medications meaning many areas have simply stopped prescribing them to newly diagnosed individuals (who might have also waited years to be diagnosed ).

I haven't said anywhere that they are. Neither are my ND DC. I have said that encouraging violence isn't sensible, situations aren't as black and white as parents think.

@Resttime I never would have punched someone. Not everyone with ND is violent.

I think a lot of people are limited in their understanding of disabilities, they don't think it through, or see the obvious implications or end result of having a difference in the way your brain works. I have even seen this shown by medical staff.

@Shatteredallthetimelately Well said.

I agree that people supported appropriately are less likely to cause harm than unsupported people. I don't know whether they'd cause less harm than any random person as I havent seen stats.

I have read a report that says untreated adhd cost 11.7 million in the criminal justice system and if its recognised they can reduce criminality by 32% for men and 41% for women. Which shows it's really important to recognise it and deal with it. That doesn't mean not going to prison for crimes, but it does involve staff training, special education programmes, skills training and ongoing care post release.

Imagine if all that was in place before they became a criminal. It would be a much safer world.

(None of this means I think it's OK that people get hurt. Just that I think the response of the system and the prevention methods are different).

This thread has gone like so many before..
Been done to death..

Turned into two very different subjects.
Disability....
Violence...

Just because you fall into the former doesn't mean the latter should be ignored and excused.

I'd image there are many ND people that don't have a violent bone in their body.

Those being on the receiving end of
someone else's violence...are they expected to just take it...if you don't like it you can jog on?

When does the person who's violence is out of their control become of an age where it becomes a criminal act to be violent towards another person and prosecution is the next step?

Should leniency be given in adulthood too?

Violence is never acceptable...and before anyone says no one is saying different here yes, yes they are, just using more words than needed to try and dress it up.

I see you have added a condition to your statement now ‘who is appropriately supported’. What proportion do you think are ‘appropriately supported’?

A friend who is a psychiatrist who has worked in prisons considered that nearly everyone in prison had some sort of ND or MH challenges. He also noted that nearly every teenager with ADHD he saw who refused medication ended up in trouble with the law. They are ALSO be far more likely to be the victim of crime than a member of the general population.