Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

Sorry haven't RTFT

The needs of the country has to work for the 'majority'. We've tried so hard in recent years to make things work equally for the 'minority' (whichever group that may be ) we've gone so far to make things work for the 'minority' that the 'majority' have a world that doesn't work so well for them. Think trying to make main stream school work for children at the severe end of the SEN spectrum - causing major disruption for the 'majority' children. It benefits neither.

I think "you average Joe" sometimes feels like their opinions and needs don't matter and are constantly told to "educate" yourself on 191 diversities and aren't able to vocalise their frustration, so are silenced. So it comes out as indifference or feeling slightly 'peaked' by yet another "you need to accept my child stims. It's just a stim. Lilly needs to educate herself about stimming and accept her hair gets pulled". People get tired and weary.

Difference should be accepted and embraced. The needs of the majority should not be compromised to an unacceptable level by it

Agree with all of that. The poster you were replying to probably stays away from busy, unpredictable environments because of her spinal injury. It’s sad, and it’s very unfortunate for anyone in that situation that they need to take measures, but she’ll do it to protect herself.

All too often people with behavioural issues or lack of impulse control are shoehorned into situations that are totally inappropriate for them, causing huge reactions that harm others (and maybe themselves).
Again, it’s a shame, it’s very unfortunate and in an ideal world, things would be easier for them. But if they can’t manage in a certain place or environment, they should be helped to find alternative one that are better suited.

It’s not just my school, it’s lots of schools. You see it here all the time on here. Children are not included in a way that is safe because you know… inclusion. School’s hands are tied because.. inclusion. You may say all children are entitled to an education but if they are not able to be in a classroom without hurting others on the daily well they should not be there. Why should 29 other children be put at risk, be hurt, not be able to learn because of one child? Why should my child come home home distraught because she has been punched in the face and tables have been turned over and class gas to be evacuated. No feck that. So tired of it.

It's not bigoted to be wary of men who are stronger than us and acting unpredictably. How would a woman know in that moment it was due to disability?

surrounded by the predatory to be hyper aware of danger

Unclear what you mean here but women being aware of danger from men is based in fact, not paranoia. Insulting to say it comes from some kind of indoctrination when it's usually personal experience.

@ntmdino That's not the way it's used. It's used in the context of "no one would say/do [whatever ableist thing] to [a wheelchair user/someone with whatever other condition]" even though actually yes, they would and do, very often. Speaking as a wheelchair user with multiple physical conditions.

I'm also ND, so not dismissing how significant that can be.

It is normal when planning to have DC to expect that you will be able to work, maintain a social life, have a night alone with your husband again before you die and have infact managed to do these things since having children. I am not actually complaining but I suspect you have zero idea. My DC cannot attend breakfast or after school club for example. I haven't had a child free night with my husband since he was born 8 years ago. I cannot go out for a meal except during school time, as I need to be on hand 'just in case'.

There are no absolutes, of course we should make allowances for those with hidden disabilities but that doesn't extend to hurting other people or making their lives a misery, children should be able to have an education not affected by another child disturbing their learning too.

It's a case of reasonable adjustments so often but no, if a person hits you you do not have to accept that ever

Honestly, I’d have reacted like an absolute maniac I think. I have a 3 year old and the image of someone karate kicking them makes me want blood.

No one should have to put up with being assaulted, verbally nor physically. Kids shouldn't have to put up with school lessons being constantly disrupted. I know it's not the "fault" of the disabled person, but we need to find ways of protecting everyone. Having a disability shouldn't be a "get out of jail free" card! If someone is likely to assault someone else, then they need a full time carer with them to stop them harming others. If a school child can't control themselves, then they likewise need to be taught separately or schools need more support assistants to keep them under control. Sorry, but everyone else has a right to an education and a right not to be assaulted.

You're absolutely right. You are having to limit your life massively because of your spinal injury, unfortunately people who cannot stop themselves from assaulting people will also need to limit where they go because no one should ever be put in the position where they could cause serious injury (or in your case even worse) to another person. And nobody should go out to a public place and be assaulted by anyone.

@NC28 Not enough, they took it up with the care company but we never heard anything else. Everyone just seemed terribly “accepting” of what happened. I was totally devastated tbh, took me ages to process it.

I agree with you OP apart from your first point.

Assault should be reported to the police for the sake of the person with the hidden disability, as much as for anyone.

It's not safe for them to assault people - for them or for the people being assaulted, and if this is what's happening, they need proper care to prevent it from happening again.

Yes, one could contact the care company if there is one but to be perfectly honest, some of them are unreliable so hopefully police involvement would trigger the right help/action from the right people.

@Downtoearthandsinksthesun I think all children deserve to be included in a way that is safe. That doesn't mean everyone else just accepts being hit. That means the adults involved realise what is behind the hitting behaviour, and put things in place to support inclusion as well as safeguarding all children in the school. It sounds to me as if your daughter's school are not doing that. Unfortunately SEN provision is often rubbish.

I see it on threads pretty much daily on here. 'ND is an excuse, parents are too soft, DC needs a good smack'.

OK, so when was the last time you saw somebody missing a leg get told to just get up and walk it off?

That's the point of that "rhetorical device" - that's effectively what autistic folk (and other folk with non-visible disabilities) get told all the time. It's not meant to imply any equivalence of disability as though somebody's playing Top Trumps for points; it's about asking for the same level of accommodation and understanding.

Did anything come of it from the police?

I can’t imagine how you must’ve felt. I don’t think I’d be accepting of any rationale in that moment.

ND and NT people are extremely likely to react badly if someone invades their space, touches them inappropriately or behaves violently towards them. They won’t ponder over whether someone has a hidden disability, or even a very obvious one, they will simply react according to their instincts.

I was kind of with you apart from this

“Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄”

My then 2yo got essentially karate kicked in a public venue by a well built autistic 17yo male. Carer’s he was with thought telling me that he was autistic was a fine and reasonable excuse. So yes I reported it to the police. What else could I have done? I felt extremely grateful my son wasn’t more badly hurt.

But that would include the decision to put yourself in the position where your involuntary actions may lead to hurt. For example, if you knew you suffered seizures but chose to drive a car resulting in an accident leading to death/injury you would be charged with causing that death even though the seizure was involuntary.

Your missing my point. Some of these fully grown men will have the mental age of a toddler or young child.

This is my stance too.

I wouldn’t hesitate to do whatever I had to, to protect my toddler. Not in a million years will I ever allow them to be harmed at the hands of another person when I can prevent it.

I thought exactly the same when I read the op.

There it is …. You said your husband was punching people.… my guy is just swinging his arms because he is re-learning use of his arms doing daily tasks. He didn’t hit anyone, but there you are thinking he has punched someone at ASDA.

Also, visible disabilities are constantly co-opted as a rhetorical device and people claim incessantly that people with a visible disability would be treated better. But we aren't!

Ha! Hidden disability advocacy has been nothing but harmful to people with (usually actually far more severe) visible disabilities. If there is some backlash, it's because this advocacy has been going on for a long time and people are recognising that it has had some detrimental impacts.

That doesn't mean it is all bad or totally wrong. It was originally very well meant and made some entirely valid points. There are hidden disabilities; they do exist; and there was originally a genuine lack of awareness about them. But by now, "hidden disability" has become a label that is often perceived as actually WORSE than visible disability, even when someone with a visible disability is much more restricted, more unwell and more limited in what they can do! An invisible disability may be unpleasant but fluctuating, partial and challenging, while a visible disability may be absolute, hardline and non negotiable. The "invisible disability" discourse wants to collapse distinctions between the two as if it's offensive even to discuss them.

But there are real, tangible differences that matter. And we should be able to talk about them. Material physical reality ought not to be taboo subject, and MN of all places should acknowledge that.