Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

@Itisbetter, my father used to help with swimming classes at the special school this boy was sent to. The boy was much happier in that environment and doing well. A mainstream classroom with forty other small children behaving unpredictably (in the boy's eyes) and perhaps making noises that hurt his ears was categorically the wrong setting for him. The smaller school with specialist teachers was the best place for him. He certainly was not "blighted for ever" because everything improved for him afterwards. However, had the teacher not acted in the way she saw fit at the time and, almost certainly at the end of her tether, having run out of all other options in her view, another child could well have been "blighted for life" by being badly hurt. Also, remember that it was a very different world in 1971.

The vast majority of disabled people (whether disability is ‘hidden’ or not) have capacity and know right from wrong. It is really only a very small proportion who do not. Capacity is not something that can be learnt in mainstream schools.

If you put a child with severe ‘hidden’ disability in a mainstream class with children being taught GCSE History but they can’t read let alone follow the lesson then what exactly are they getting out of it? Sure the rest of the class might get warm and fuzzy feelings of being inclusive or ‘kind’ but the disabled child is being failed. If we want to limit the number of dependent disabled adults then a specialist setting where they can use their time learning life skills, to read, basic money-management, employability skills, etc is what is needed.

Also children from damagingly dysfunctional homes more often than not do have lifelong neurological disability. What they don’t have is parents capable of engaging with services to diagnose this, or the ability to provide the supports needed - often because they have lifelong neurological disabilities themselves. These disabilities can be caused by alcohol (FASD), drugs, or neglect.

We don’t really advocate tying children up because we don’t have resources to care for them. I’m sorry you had to witness that it’s very obviously clouded your views. It sounds like the child’s life would have been forever blighted by his care. Really upsetting to read about. Imagine if that had been your experience of school.

@Itisbetter Yes, I completely agree with you there. And I would consider any child who can't communicate to be very vulnerable, no question.

I think @verysmellyjelly ”most vulnerable” has to have context. A learning disabled or autistic child who cannot communicate is far more vulnerable to abuse because they cannot advocate for themselves at all. In a flood or fire they are obviously better placed to save themselves than someone who is immobile.

@NonplasticBertrand I am autistic.

No, whatever issues the violent child has, (s)he is the one who should not be there if the school is unable to control the behaviour. Why should the bullied child have to suffer? Is the child with the problems more important than everyone else? No child will be safe in this environment, all will be worried that they will be the next target. The constant disruption will mean that no constructive learning can take place
When l was six, we had, what we thought at the time, was an extremely naughty boy in our class. Years later, l found out he was autistic. He had already been held back a year. On this particular morning, l cannot remember what he was doing that was even worse than normal. What l can remember is the teacher, who was near retirement age, tying the boy to the chair. He left our school after that to go to a special school. Of course, l cannot approve of the actions of the teacher, but I can completely understand why she did this. It was 1971, there were nearly forty five and six year olds in her class and no other adult in the room apart from the teacher. She would have been terrified that either the boy or one of us might be badly injured.

You sound like a mens right activist complaining that women's rights are overblown! If you read the evidence base, particularly on stigma and social exclusion, you will find autism tops the charts and takes a terrible toll on the mental health of autistic people and carers. We could also look at the life expectancy of people with global neurodevelopmental conditions...

@Tapofthemorning This is exactly what I was referring to with my first comment on this thread. Advocacy around hidden disabilities was originally a good and somewhat necessary thing, because yes, they do exist and were generally rather unknown to the public for a long time.

But unfortunately, much of this advocacy has been so poorly done, and in a particular climate of our day, that it has actually led to an unintended impact on people with visible disabilities who are often far more vulnerable and more unwell. Hidden disability advocacy has often taken the stance that this group is the "most vulnerable" (lol, remind you of anything...) and the most overlooked and the most in need of special privileges and care. And crucially, it's a model of disability that encourages people to identify into it via identity based models and/or self diagnosis. With serious visible disabilities, that's just not how it works.

I'm not saying there are no serious hidden disabilities, btw. Of course there are. Just that the nature of the advocacy has been so ham handed and tangled up with identitarian politics that it has ended up pushing a false hierarchy. The reality is that most of the time (albeit not absolutely always) it still is actually visibly disabled people who are the most vulnerable.

What solution would you suggest?
My friends son has no concept of right and wrong, and it's just impossible for him to consider other people.

Your friend needs better professional support. What you describe is not that unusual with severely disabled adults and workable solutions can be found (not so much difficult as expensive and requiring a modicum of imagination).

Another problem I see is that a potential solution might be to have two or even three carers (my friends son only goes out with minimum two people as it is). Where are all these people coming from though? There's already a labour shortage as it is. One of my friends sons carers is leaving, she can't find anyone else. Oh, and she pays £21 per hour up north, still can't find anyone.

That's awful. I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I mentioned upthread a friends teenage son is very disabled with non verbal autism. He's big and strong and has no comprehension. He plays with himself a lot (then has a screaming meltdown if he gets cum on himself). He has also started putting his hands on women and girls in the street. My friend has had big multi agency meetings about how to tackle this. From what she's told me nobody has a clue what to do or a workable solution.
He also kicks animals while he's out if he's near one. A poster upthread said her son is very sorry afterwards if he hurts somebody, my friends son has no concept of 'sorry' or right and wrong.

I think what’s difficult is reading some of these threads on disability where people describe their experience of being hurt or inconvenienced or otherwise impacted by a disabled person. There are a huge number of disabled people in the world. They really aren’t committing the majority of these sorts of crimes. In fact they are far far more likely to be victims of crime themselves. The person causing your child upset at school is much more likely to come from a damagingly dysfunctional home life than have been born with a lifelong neurological disability.

The best place to educate our disabled children is with their siblings and neighbours so that they grow as part of our community.

Our children are already facing a future where they will be shouldering the burden of a huge elderly population. Why on earth would we not be doing everything in our power to limit the number of dependent disabled adults who cannot function in society? It’s short sighted and foolish to ostracise those that cannot function cope with help I’m mainstream school or indeed in mainstream life. If you do want to fight to protect your child then step up and fight for inclusion. Speak up when you hear racism, sexism or ableism because those are the attitudes that are going to drain their futures of promise and reduce their outcomes.

I think people do understand it's not their fault, but the outcome of an attack on a person doesn't change.

It's difficult for everyone involved.

I was sexually assaulted by someone with a disability. The police came to his defence. I was 11 and will never forget it.

There has to be a line op.

Wow
Very concerned about the lack of respect for education here

As an aside as an Architect I use Trig all the time. It’s especially important for land and building surveys and along with the Golden section also for design

Without Trig I would not have passed my Maths exams to get into Uni

Please don’t think education is unimportant. Those kids at the back that want to learn amongst all this disruption are the ones that are silently suffering. They may grow up to be kind and accepting but if they lose their career dreams along the way it’s highly unlikely.

and this is the point really.
Others have stated autistic people that lash out don’t know they are doing it at the time and will lash out at whoever. Surely if family or professionals know someone could be dangerous they should be monitored when in public to protect the public. It’s simply not good enough to say they are autistic they do this sometimes.
The above case is a good example. The authorities and family should have been aware he was a danger to people and should have been unsupervised at all times

A five minute distraction? Really? Have you ever been in a classroom? Just over half the children in the lady Year 2 class I taught had EHCPs, and some without had severe behavioural issues. Evacuating the classroom multiple times a day because of chairs being thrown, a child who would regularly scream so hard she'd burst blood vessels in her nose so the classroom would look like a murder scene, a child who enjoyed ripping everything off the walls and tearing up books and classwork, another one who would take shoes off and hurl them at faces, one who would regularly soil themselves... And the list goes on.

Out of 5 hours a day of teaching time, the children in that particular class were getting half an hour at best, and even that would be disrupted constantly.

What you're saying is, nothing of value is ever being taught, so NT children should just get on with it because they'll never use trigonometry anyway?

That just beggars belief.

Remind me of the last time you all used trigonometry….

Earlier today (well, yesterday now). Your point?

None of these ‘explanations’ answered why the Carers do not walk near the guy, and are immersed in their smartphones rather than performing their (presumable) job of looking after him and being active companions. So he can run off and enter gardens and houses at will. But their job may not be to be “active companions. You seem to think they should be engaging the man in chat and standing right next to him at all times like a nanny to a preschooler. That may be a long long way from their role. A PA is engaged to support the client not mummy them. I obviously don’t know this situation or person but it sounds like they’d like to go for a walk alone. For whatever reason that’s not possible so they have found a quiet place with few options so the route is the same and the man is able to walk ahead a little and have a semblance of freedom.

He wasn't diagnosed as ND, though or have I missed something?

I don't think bullying and violence should be considered the same as a child having a vocal tic or stimming. Those are things a child can't help. Jayden can choose to flip tables but he needs discipline of he makes that choice. Same with bullies.

I think it’s hard for everyone involved

I don't know what your original comment was, I wasn't replying to you. And I know it's not legally possible, I'm saying it SHOULD be. 🤦🏻‍♀️ The reading comprehension on this site gets worse every day, I swear.